Break out the Crow Sauce, gentlemen, and I'm one of the blokes that need it:
https://railfan.com/rare-new-york-centr ... -new-home/
Read the update there.
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| NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47720 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Break out the Crow Sauce, gentlemen, and I'm one of the blokes that need it: https://railfan.com/rare-new-york-centr ... -new-home/ Read the update there.
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Don't worry about the Crow Sauce, this is too good not to celebrate!! |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
This is nothing short of heroic, and those involved deserve every bit of credit and kudos that one could think of. They aren't in Danbury yet, but they aren't in a scrap lugger, either. A huge win. Howard P. |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Did any NYC "P" motors survive? A significant number of them were originally Cleveland Union Terminal units, converted from overhead pantograph to third-rail shoe power pickup. They were impressive-looking beasts, same wheel arrangement as PRR GG1s. |
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| Author: | NJDixon [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
None of the P-Motors or R-Motors survive. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
PaulWWoodring wrote: Did any NYC "P" motors survive? A significant number of them were originally Cleveland Union Terminal units, converted from overhead pantograph to third-rail shoe power pickup. They were impressive-looking beasts, same wheel arrangement as PRR GG1s. Five seconds at Wikipedia or your favorite internet search engine would give you the answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Central_P_Motor |
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
The P-motors were all CUT motors. Each road using CUT changed from steam to electric to go into the Terminal. Trains passing thru the City of Cleveland, but not entering the Terminal could retain steam power. NYC 25-26 (20th Century) and for a while 27-28 (New England States) did not make a passenger stop in Cleveland. When diesels took over, the 3000 VDC motors were rebuilt to 600 VDC third rail and went to Grand Central. I think NYC had to buy them from the CUT Company which was a Van Sweringen Brothers production owned by multiple RR's, not just NYC. PRR had its own station in Cleveland. Phil Mulligan |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
I knew the CUT motors were designated P-2 on the NYC, so I thought that NYC might already have had similar units that were P-1s. I'm familiar with their history on CUT. I believe there were 20 of them. They were the only heavy electric locos to run in my area. If I were going to have a model of an electric loco in 1.5" scale that would be the one I'd want to have built. As much as I like GG1's, they never ran in NE Ohio, plus they've already been done in that scale. |
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| Author: | Steve Heister [ Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
The Cleveland Union Terminal Company (CUT) was owned by 2 railroads. The B&O, Erie, Cleveland Interurban Railroad (Shaker Rapid) and later Cleveland Transit System Rapid were all tenants. The urban transit operations had non cancelable leases. The owners of CUT were New York Central, 93% and Nickle Plate, 7%. There is no mystery concerning the CUT P motors going to NYC at the end of electric operations in Cleveland. Do the math! |
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| Author: | Catalpa [ Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
I heard that a P-motor was being returned to GE, and was accidently switched into the museum at Lake Shore Railway Historical Society's facility in Northeast PA. The railroad apparently realized their mistake and retrieved it and sent it on to the GE plant at Erie. Perhaps some member of the group can confirm or deny this story. I did not witness the event, but was told by a long-time (and now deceased) member. That would have been great if it could have happened. I remember them working on the west side of Cleveland at Lindale, bringing passenger trains out of the Cleveland Union Terminal, to be switched to steam power for trips further west (and southwest). |
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| Author: | R Paul Carey [ Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Having grown up in Westchester County, I have many memories of the NYC's P-2 locomotives. For clarity, all the ex-CUT units converted to third rail operation were classified as P-2 (succeeding the CUT Class P-1a). Of these, the first conversion (at Harmon shop) was renumbered 222 and widely referred to as the "Three Deuces". It was the sole Class P-2a, and something of a celebrity in its time. The balance of the converted units were all rebuilt by GE and classed as P-2b. These were delivered in the two-tone gray scheme. The most prominent feature of these units in operation was the "jet scream" produced by their blowers, opening at maximum speed as their controller would be advanced to the first notch, initially in series, and again in parallel. The New Haven EP-5s were built contemporaneously with the same blower system, for which they were nicknamed "Jets". A knowledgeable person associated with LT Klauder Associates once explained to me these blowers had a unique 10-blade fan design that produced the "scream". In the case of the New Haven units it would appear the design of sufficiently effective blowers to handle the high-amperage DC current was likewise a matter of some concern. So far as I know, this sound - most memorable at the start of its cycle - is (sadly) long lost to history. On their massive articulated frames with large decks fore and aft these were truly the beasts of NYC's electrification! |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Why did they need these Cleveland units in New York? I would think traffic was declining. Did they not already have enough power? |
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| Author: | NJDixon [ Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
softwerkslex wrote: Why did they need these Cleveland units in New York? I would think traffic was declining. Did they not already have enough power? They were available, basically. When they de-electrified Cleveland Union Terminal in '51, they didn't need the P-Motors out there. The P-Motors were some 15 years newer than the oldest T-Motors (the first batches of the T-Motors were built in 1913, while the earliest P-motors were built in 1929) so it made sense just to move them over there and retire the oldest and most worn-out T-Motors. |
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| Author: | R Paul Carey [ Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NYC Electrics In Altamont, NY Finally On the Roll! |
Another reason is that all the S and T Class units were "gearless", with the armature built on the driving axles. Because of their high degree of unsprung weight, hard-riding at speed and costly maintenance characteristics, these designs were out of favor by the 1930s. |
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