Hi all,

While looking through an old roster of locomotives owned and operated by the Surry, Sussex & Southampton Railway of Southeastern Virginia, I came across some information concerning one of their locomotives, Baldwin narrow gauge 2-6-2 #24, eventually coming under the ownership of a "Rail City Museum" located in Sandy Creek (or Pond), New York.

Doing a quick Google search of the Rail City Museum comes up with very limited results including a website that doesn't work and a Facebook group that shares some, but not much, history about this place. What knowledge I have found concerns the individual who owned the collection (a Dr. Stanley Groman) and not the collection itself. (Other than the main pieces such as Huntington & Broad Top #38.) It also seems that the museum is no longer in operation as a tourist railroad. (Although there still seems to be a Rail City Museum in some sort of station building at that aforementioned location.)

To add some more context on #24, the locomotive was built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works in October of 1920 for the Surry, Sussex & Southampton Railway. It operated on that railroad as one of the main line engines until 1929 when it was sold to the nearby Gray Lumber Company of Waverly, Virginia. (It is interesting to note that Gray also purchased sister prairie #26 which now resides in New Jersey.) Supposedly in 1955, #24 was sold to Dr. Gorman for his Rail City Museum but was scrapped on the property in 1967.

I was wondering if anybody could confirm this data and possibly give me some more information about what equipment was located at the Rail City Museum. Also, pictures are always the best type of primary source!

Thanks in advance

Nick Jobe

https://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocom ... splay=1695
Check out the notes section, it doesn't mention the engine you are looking for but it does discuss the disposition of the Rail City equipment. Cringed at this: "In 1993 we held an auction to sell the remaining locomotives from the former Rail City Museum...To our regret, we set a timetable for the removal of the equipment not anticipating any interest in the equipment from scrap dealers."

The only thing I was able to find here on RyPN is this inconclusive thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4840

Classic Trains magazine did an article about the place awhile back.
Side note...my dad who worked for the NYC took me to Rail City when I was a little kid. We were in the museum building when he was startled to see a painting on the wall. He had painted it maybe 25 years earlier! I'd love to know where that painting is!

Rail City was one of the first "enthusiast"-based rail preservation setups. One notable locomotive from RC (besides H&BTM 38) is the Gramling's #75, the first locomotive they acquired and restored.

Howard P.

Another is the current Everett RR 2-6-0 # 11, which was Rail City's main operating locomotive.

The only remaining Rochester (NY) city subway car, resided at Rail City for a while. It eventually made its way back to the Rochester area, into the collection of the RGVRRM, where it is undergoing a slow restoration.
http://www.rgvrrm.org/about/railroad/rsb60/

Rail City also had a "herd" of saddle tank engines from Solvay Process, near Syracuse. Several of these survive today.

JR

Here is a link to a current Rail City website. There is no mention of the locomotive you are looking for. There is a contact us link.

Wesley

I don't recall seeing any photos of the the narrow gauge 2-6-2, however it is listed in "The Railfan's Guide to Museum & Park Displays" compiled by Randolph Kean, published by Harold Cox, and copyright 1973 by the National Capital Historical Museum of Transportation (National Capital Trolley Museum).

Exactly when the listing was compiled is unknown but it does not include H&BT #38 which was sold in 1968 to the Livonia, Avon & Lakeville.

If the 2-6-2 was scrapped I would have to assume it was in pretty bad shape since Dr. Groman seemed to hold on to things no matter their condition.

Dave Conrad's Steam Locomotive Directory has details of all eight of the ex-Solvay 0-4-0T engines.

I haven't been in touch lately with Robert Groman but he has been very good about documenting the story of his father's museum. He gave me a tour of the family's property at Sandy Pond and explained how Rail City was laid out and operated.

There is a "Remembering Rail City Railroad Museum and Fire Dept." Facebook page with a number of vintage photos, although a quick glance does not appear to show the 2-6-2.

- Alan Maples
Everett Railroad

Alan,

Thanks for posting the roster from Randy Kean's article.

TRAINS Magazine featured Rail City in December 1995 with an article by Bob Groman, son of Dr. Stanley Groman. In describing the early history of Rail City, Bob states: "Initially it was publicized as a narrow-gauge museum, but my father would change to standard gauge owing to the limited amount of narrow-gauge equipment available." The full article is available as a link on the Rail City web page.

That statement would account for the presence of numbers 24 and 26 on the roster. Perhaps 24 was scrapped as a parts source for 26?

Wesley

The 1995 Trains article is the best I've seen on this operation.



The station museum that was opened after the auction which showcased hundreds of photos and had a gift shop, closed several years ago. The depot is now a private home, belonging I believe to a family member.

Does anyone know if the gazebo out front, which I believe dated to Rail City's prime years, was ever restored? I believe during one of my visits back around 2000 that it was planned for restoration. Doesn't look like it ever happened judging by aerial imagery.

Digging a little further . . . Dr. Groman sold Rail City to Bernard Weber of Rochester, NY, sometime around 1967 or 1968. Weber apparently promised to revitalize the place but did little more than destroy some buildings and generally make a mess of things. I suspect it may be during this time that locomotive 24 was scrapped. Dr. Groman ended up taking the property back from Weber but Rail City was by then long past its heyday.

- Alan Maples

I have a bit of a soft spot for Rail City, as it was the very first place I was able to see and ride behind a live steam locomotive as a kid in the mid-1960s. I don't recall the exact date when my parents took me there, but I believe it was probably in the summer of 1966. I still have the train ticket, although there is no date on it.

By the time I visited Rail City, the decline was well underway. There were very few patrons there on a nice, sunny summer day. As noted in the Trains article, the construction of Interstate 81 north from Syracuse to Watertown meant that the public no longer had to drive by the place, and on Rte 3, it was a bit out of the way. The museum wasn't exactly pretty by the time I visited and it didn't look as if a lot of upkeep was being done.

The train ride was a 1-mile loop, at least one stretch of which was visible from the road. The power was Bath & Hammondsport #11, a nice little 2-6-0, coal-burning Mogul-type. The "coach" was a dark blue, converted inter-urban combine, although I knew nothing of that at the time. The ride was very slow, with frequent stops at little complexes of deserted buildings, as well as a "Boot Hill" cemetery. About the last half of the loop was just a steady run back to the station. I do recall the big, yellow water tank at the station, as well as numerous cold, dead locomotives on display, including Huntingdon & Broadtop #38, which I don't believe ever actually pulled a train there. They also had a number of small saddle-tankers.

Today, I don't believe there is any trace of the place. I've looked at Google Earth and I cannot tell exactly where the museum was, nor can I see any trace of any infrastructure. I would love to know what happened to that old water tank. Fortunately, Bath & Hammondsport #11 survived, and I believe she changed hands several times over the course of the ensuing half century, without ever running anyplace else, until she was acquired by the Everett Railroad near Altoona. They restored her and got her running 3-4 years ago and I beat a path there as soon as I could to see the old girl. I photographed their Christmas Trains in 2016, and returned the following year with Pete Lerro for his 2-day photo charter. I know another operator who tried to set up another photo shoot there this year, but I believe that was overcome by events (COVID). Would love to get back there. I think they have some additional matching passenger equipment now, as well as a few freight cars. Neat operation with some nice photo locations. I believe they also have the Huntingdon & Broadtop #38 from Rail City, but it has yet to be restored.

Here is an album of images I shot of the #11 on the Everett Railroad. She's a nice little engine and puts on a good show.

Everett Railroad Album:https://www.flickr.com/photos/112261457@N06/albums/72157678055905635

I believe that after Rail City closed, Dr. Groman's son did maintain a museum of memorabilia on the site for quite a number of years, but it has since closed. I suspect that there are not a lot of people who remember the place, like I do.

/Kevin Madore

If you send a message through the website, Robert Groman will respond. I have spoken with him several times about Scranton Transit trolley #505, which had been part of the collection before going to the Magee Transportation Museum in Bloomsburg, PA.

Kevin, the depot, gazebo, and another deteriorating building are here.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2 ... 76.1611349

Another building which doesn't look to be in awful shape is hidden a bit in the trees close to Route 3, but is easily visible using Street View. I believe it's the structure towards the left in the 1955 picture spanning pages 52/53 in the 1995 Trains article. If you move the view to the east by the Rail City sign (The Street View imagery dates from 2013 when the depot museum still ran), you can just barely make out the now derelict house that was also in the same picture.

https://goo.gl/maps/u1P4JAhfac6ycC838

And there's another building a few hundred feet to the east on the edge of a clearing not far from Stanley Drive that looks like it may of been part of the Rail City complex (Possibly what housed the Rail City fire department?).

The water tank is gone. It was sold to the Attica & Arcade Railroad in the 1993 auction. According to a report at Railroad.net, it was never assembled and later was sold to another operation.

How could I have forgotten #11 ?? Alan, please forgive me! Interesting that they are now together again.

Howard P.