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| Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47806 |
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| Author: | xboxtravis7992 [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Some nasty allegations have surfaced regarding the work environment on the C&T: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/new-m ... 051/495208 |
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| Author: | Zach Lybrand [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Am I missing something, or does that page only show that a lawsuit exists? I can't find any links to what this is all about. |
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| Author: | xboxtravis7992 [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:04 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit | ||
My apologies for not including the PDF, here it is with the full details. Basically accusations of every Title VII violation you can imagine.
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| Author: | bigjim4life [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Innocent until proven guilty, but...DAMN... |
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| Author: | PMC [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
I'll let an actual attorney comment, but the way the document is written seems a bit... odd to me. Unpolished. But I could be wrong. |
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| Author: | SouPac [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
In 2021 a wholesale change in direction on the part of leadership philosophy occurred at C&TS. That operating season it became clear to me that one had to “Play ball” with the newly established order regardless of ethical concerns, or leave. If any were wondering why I abruptly left in September if 2021, please read the above document related to what happened in the year following. Knowing all the parties involved, I can’t say I’m surprised by any of it, but I am deeply saddened it went that way. Best, Stathi (Opinions expressed in this message are my own) Efstathios I.Pappas, PhD abd General Manager Skunk Train/California Western RR Stathi@skunktrain.com 209 603 7363 |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
No surprises there. [sarcasm]C&TS presents itself as a museum of old time railroading, so perhaps the instances mentioned are just another way of interpreting and passing on how railroading was 100 years ago.[/sarcasm] I hope C&TS can successfully change course, but after all this time, and with the culture in the area, I have my doubts. |
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| Author: | nedsn3 [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Casias and his three sons work for the railroad! There was a post earlier this year on either here or NGD from (I think) by one of those 3 sons proudly writing about his much deserved job. Hiring of family members should have been forbidden as the railroad (supposedly) isn't a make-work thing. But it is. During my one experience as a volunteer I was disgusted about the conduct of the Hispanic employees. Slovenly and careless, they clearly regarded the railroad as their "rice bowl". They pass themselves off as the "elite". At the taxpayers expense of course. House needs cleaning. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
It is part of their policy to hire local residents. It was official policy back in 1986 when I applied. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
nedsn3 wrote: Casias and his three sons work for the railroad! There was a post earlier this year on either here or NGD from (I think) by one of those 3 sons proudly writing about his much deserved job. Hiring of family members should have been forbidden as the railroad (supposedly) isn't a make-work thing. But it is. During my one experience as a volunteer I was disgusted about the conduct of the Hispanic employees. Slovenly and careless, they clearly regarded the railroad as their "rice bowl". They pass themselves off as the "elite". At the taxpayers expense of course. House needs cleaning. Without taking sides on the veracity or validity of the lawsuit itself............... ANY and EVERY historic tourism operation in a remote rural area in the 21st century has an extreme challenge attracting the talent and skills necessary to keep such an operation running. Be it Yellowstone's Grand Lodge, the East Broad Top, the Grand Canyon, Cass, or the Cumbres & Toltec, the remoteness that makes them attractive to tourists also curses them when it comes to attracting necessary talent to keep the operation going, from machinists to paramedics to bus drivers to cooks to maids. Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon were long considered "boot camps" for all NPS Rangers, both as training and as a need to fill vacant positions. Grand Canyon Railway CMO Eric Hadder, himself a transplant, told me "You can't work here unless you love hunting, fishing, and other outdoors activities--because those are your [three-day] weekends." He very recently told me about the shortages in staffing that the company faces both at the railroad and the other Grand Canyon concession operations (lodging, food, etc.). The company routinely advertises openings in employment publications and newspapers, and even runs employee shuttle vans from certain remote locations to maintain adequate staffing. And I haven't even mentioned family life--having a spouse and kids, or even a girlfriend/boyfriend, equally willing to adopt to such a lifestyle. I have mentioned that I once showed another entrepreneur around the EBT when he had an idea of starting up a nonprofit foundation to get the EBT from the Kovalchick family, similar to what eventually happened with Levin, Moorman, etc. later. What dissuaded him from the idea was Huntingdon County's (relative) remoteness and lack of support infrastructure. I was tempted to point out Cass, Cumbres, etc. to him,, but I knew what his answer would be: "But those have state underwriting, and Kovalchick doesn't want anything like that!" One thing that arouses controversy and contentiousness in the Southwestern U.S. is what some would term as "reparations," and others "set-asides," for Native American populations, usually driven by political considerations of one kind or another. As one example, the much-lauded Black Mesa & Lake Powell RR and the inter-connected mine and power plant projects were (rightfully) seen as a "jobs program" for what continues to be among the most economically depressed parts of the U.S., the Navajo Nation. I was informed by a reliable source that as the BM&LP was being shut down, engineers on the BM&LP was earning about $2,000 a day for an eight-hour shift! My source dismissively said, "That's the price they pay for having to deal with the Navajo Nation....." Again, I am in no way defending the work force of the C&TS or any allegations against them. But all of the factors I described above, and more, enter into the complex equation of working in, and keeping running, remote places like Cumbres, Wiscasset, Hill City, Cass, etc. And, oddly, other factors enter into an entirely different proposition in Orlando, Hawaii, and cities where "affordable housing" is a thing of the past--and not just for historic operations either. |
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| Author: | msrlha_archivist [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
ADMIV raises some valid issues with isolated workforces in general, though tourist railroads are the topic of discussion here. Often, the inmates run the asylum, so to speak. Local culture in isolated areas is tough to break into when you're an outsider and is often met with harassment, hazing, and the alike. It will be interesting to follow this case and see the outcome. I am certain the States of CO and NM will certainly take heed and make the appropriate personnel changes. But, what can they really do to institute change? If your local, prejudice workforce is the problem, will hiring three more locals with a different last name solve the problem or is it a conundrum? To come to work at an operation like C&TS, you have to be quite passionate about the work/scenery/region, because the isolation, lack of great housing, mediocre pay, and poor year-round services is a huge turn-off to most of the very good talent in this industry. On top of that, to make a commitment to work at an operation like C&TS, and then be subject to all the games and BS that locals play is really taxing on a person. |
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| Author: | BWills [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Reading that is quite dissapointing for the C&TS. they need to clean house with managment, hire folks who will not tolerate such from the employees below them and lead by example, but it won't happen over night. Honestly the stuff I've heard from C1 RR employees about hazing and harassment from other employees is horrible as well, maybe not quite the sexism, but still awful. |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Aside from the incredible behavioral allegations, there are numerous, serious, dangerous railroad operating violations alleged. Some of these are in the category of "instant decertification" and removal from service (blue flags, electronic devices). Not properly maintaining water level indicating devices? Is it 1995 again? Was nothing learned from 1278? Howard P. |
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| Author: | MD Ramsey [ Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Howard P. wrote: Aside from the incredible behavioral allegations, there are numerous, serious, dangerous railroad operating violations alleged. Some of these are in the category of "instant decertification" and removal from service (blue flags, electronic devices). Not properly maintaining water level indicating devices? Is it 1995 again? Was nothing learned from 1278? Howard P. Keep in mind, the C&TS, per FRA policy, is not required to certify engineers/conductors. Blue Signal is part of their company rules, but again, by policy not required by FRA. Same for radio rules, D&A testing etc and electronic devices. With that said, FRA can change that policy at anytime…….. MDR |
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| Author: | Trainrider47 [ Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cumbres & Toltec Discrimination Lawsuit |
Regarding the statement that there should not be family members hired, the remoteness argument is a good one but there is a historical aspect as well. Cass, for example, has had multiple families with multiple members working for the railroad over the years. The same was true back when it was the Mower Lumber Co. Railroading has always been a family business with employed parents assisting their children in getting jobs with the railroad. This can become a problem in the current era if it results in non family members being excluded but I doubt this is the case at the C&TS as they are clearly short handed at the present time. I'm saddened to see this at an operation that I've always enjoyed visiting. Michael Allen |
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