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NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48353		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  GTW Dude [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
If you have been on Facebook within the last 24 hours, you may have noticed that FWRHS made this post of a NYC Mohawk blueprint with the caption "The Road to the Future looks bright: http://www.americanloco.org/". What is unusual about this is several other prominent organizations such as the Steam Railroading Institute, Western Maryland Scenic, and the National New York Central Railroad Museum have all made posts with a photo of an NYC Mohawk blueprint. The National New York Central Railroad Museum has scheduled a "Special Historic Announcement" for this wednesday October 7th at 10:30AM. I have never seen multiple prominent organizations hype up an announcement like this before. Could we possibly be seeing a return of New York Central steam?
Author:  CMaguire19 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
Whatever is coming, Fort Wayne has some announcement video coming out in about two hours. All signs point towards restoration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLK9xg-AsQ
Author:  The big [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
MOUHAHAHHAHAHA sorry just excited by this news If is not the biggest April Fool's Day ever FINALLY nyc3001 just happy to see a NYC steam engine restored

I most like 2933 but 3001 is not so far
Author:  Steamguy73 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
The ending, with the Herron Rail clip at the very end, I think shows us exactly what will be told on Wednesday.

But if you needed them to outright tell you, they give this on the National NYC Museum's facebook:

"For the first time since 1957, the future for one of the Central's last remaining icons looks bright".

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/h69EtncRuyzbPgju/

I mean, it can't really get more blatant than that.

Also, short note, Herron Rail's "Steam and Diesel on the NYC" Series is excellent, and it features a... certain mohawk frequently throughout the program. Don't know if the audio was recorded live, but if it was, that's one hell of a whistle the "certain mohawk" has.
Author:  daylight4449 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
I know I've said it a few times already out in the wilds of the internet... But can we just give an award and raise to whoever came up with the plan to push this over the last few days? Multiple organizations help push the message, which admittedly is an obvious topic at this point but also in an excellent way to get people to sit up and take notice.

On the other hand, they did just also create the manual for one massive April Fool's prank if someone so chose to take the playbook and use it in such a manner...
Author:  hullmat991 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
I have to wonder why anyone would consider this locomotive for restoration to operation. Multiple credible sources on various boards have described her as being rat's nest of issues due to being left out in the elements for so long.
I also find it odd that Ft Wayne would get involved with this when it makes it seem like they are the ones that would be doing any work on it. If they do not have the room or funds to work on their mikado; then where would they work on 3001, and would this put 765 into semi-retirement while being restored and / or operated?

If its just a cosmetic restoration; then I'm all for it. Just for the love of all that is holy; please also have a shelter built over it.
Author:  J3a-614 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
hullmat991 wrote:
I have to wonder why anyone would consider this locomotive for restoration to operation. . . .

If its just a cosmetic restoration; then I'm all for it. Just for the love of all that is holy; please also have a shelter built over it.


I can consider two points for restoration to operation.

First, this is a "modern" engine, and it features a cast frame and I believe is roller bearings all around on all axles. That could be an important factor.

Second--and this is the non-logical factor--she looks VERY much like a Hudson. She's about the closest we can get to one short of building a replica. On top of that, with those roller bearings and a boiler that really could make steam back in the day, she could really roll. In fact, Mohawks like her paved the way for the amazing dual service versions that followed during the war, and the even more amazing Niagaras that followed after that.

Many of these later Mohawks wound up working passenger trains, including the 20th Century, which could at times simply be too much for a Hudson to handle.

Now for the two downsides. . .

The first is that, like any steam restoration these days, there's a lot to be done to get her running again, and all of it will be expensive.

The second thing is, where will she run? So much in the way of railroad management isn't exactly friendly to passenger service, and is especially unfriendly to steam passenger service.

So maybe that restoration will be cosmetic only. There are good reasons for that.

Yet so much has also been seen as impossible--until it became possible, and was done. We have two operational Santa Fe 4-8-4s, a Big Boy is in steam, other UP engines may come back (including a 2-10-2 of all things), and of course the resurrection and rebuilding of the East Broad Top.

We don't know, we can't know. . .but until we do, let's recall how Ross keeps telling us that "Hope springs eternal."

EDIT--For an account of what this series of Mohawks could do, look up David P. Morgan's account of "The Mohawk that Refused to Abdicate." That story involved sister engine 3004.

Hmmm--I wonder, if this is to be an operational restoration, if at some point someone might want to reenact an aging 4-8-2 stepping into a fast freight run, going so fast with a huge load of dead tonnage as to be causing problems for the dispatcher, as the speeding freight was supposed to go in the hole for passenger trains, and his tower operators had trouble keeping track of it!!
Author:  Steamguy73 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
hullmat991 wrote:
I have to wonder why anyone would consider this locomotive for restoration to operation. Multiple credible sources on various boards have described her as being rat's nest of issues due to being left out in the elements for so long.
I also find it odd that Ft Wayne would get involved with this when it makes it seem like they are the ones that would be doing any work on it. If they do not have the room or funds to work on their mikado; then where would they work on 3001, and would this put 765 into semi-retirement while being restored and / or operated?

If its just a cosmetic restoration; then I'm all for it. Just for the love of all that is holy; please also have a shelter built over it.


No way that an announcement of this scale is purely for a cosmetic restoration.

3001 is a pretty good size, comes from a notable railroad, and is of a pretty well known locomotive type. It's fairly easy to understand why there's a demand for restoring it, even if the condition of the mohawk is... not particularly great according to the accounts. But, all it takes is money, and there's clearly an appetite for this to occur. 3001 has been brought up as a restoration candidate for ages. I remember it being mentioned when there was the schism with 261 about 15 years ago.

Ft Wayne being involved doesn't surprise me. They've got the Indiana Rail Experience not very far from Elkhart, and that's a good place for 3001 to potentially operate on a more regular basis, plus there's the "great steel fleet" perfectly matching behind it. All it needs are a

This is pure speculation, but it appears that this may be a separate organization. So this, in theory, wouldn't necessarily inhibit the many projects FWRHS has, like the steel fleet. And in theory, it shouldn't inhibit 765 from operating in future.
Author:  PRR8063 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
Steamguy73 wrote:
hullmat991 wrote:
This is pure speculation, but it appears that this may be a separate organization. So this, in theory, wouldn't necessarily inhibit the many projects FWRHS has, like the steel fleet. And in theory, it shouldn't inhibit 765 from operating in future.


When is 765's next 1472 inspection?

From everything going on with the FWRHS's Indiana Rail Experience, there seems to be a lot of growth which may necessitate a second 'large' locomotive on the roster. Having 3001 up and running before 765's 1472 would allow for the Indiana Rail Experience to carry on with a steam locomotive while 765's inspection takes place.

I agree that it shouldn't inhibit 765's future operations, but rather add to it and potentially draw more people (two steam loco's are better than one as the saying goes, right?)

Overall, very exciting. I praise FWRHS for all their efforts, especially the stuff they have been doing the last few years.
Author:  msrlha_archivist [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
hullmat991 wrote:
If they do not have the room or funds to work on their mikado; then where would they work on 3001, and would this put 765 into semi-retirement while being restored and / or operated?


Per the FWRHS Facebook page, the latest update regarding the NKP Mikado indicated it was being considered for future cosmetic restoration at a location to be determined. I understand that it's slightly too small and too similar to the 765 to gather much excitement for fundraising or operation. With the NYC 3001, there is a real chance of getting a shot in the arm from enthused folks.
Author:  hullmat991 [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
Steamguy73 wrote:
This is pure speculation, but it appears that this may be a separate organization. So this, in theory, wouldn't necessarily inhibit the many projects FWRHS has, like the steel fleet. And in theory, it shouldn't inhibit 765 from operating in future.


With all the locomotives being "rescued" over the last 10 years with organizations setup to restore and eventually operate them; it feels like we are reaching a saturation point. Is it really a good idea for another group to pop-up and fight for funding / donations / grants with all the other groups. Call me jaded; I dont want see a locomotive get torn down with a hole in the firebox just to either rust away or gather dust for 20+ years in some shed or under a tarp due to the group not able to get enough support. In my case I support several projects on monthly basis - 2 of them are in the UK; this group would need to demonstrate why I should adjust my limited funding for them to support this one.


msrlha_archivist wrote:
Per the FWRHS Facebook page, the latest update regarding the NKP Mikado indicated it was being considered for future cosmetic restoration at a location to be determined. I understand that it's slightly too small and too similar to the 765 to gather much excitement for fundraising or operation. With the NYC 3001, there is a real chance of getting a shot in the arm from enthused folks.


Sometimes a smaller locomotive is just what is needed though. Yes it may not be able to haul as much as something larger, but it can travel further to smaller lines. Personally I love the look of something the size of 587 or 624. They look more at home on a short line instead of a Berk or Northern.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
My "Spidey Sense" tells me it's 3001.

Why? I know that particular locomotive was considered by Conrail for operational restoration.
A reputable group is involved.
It is the real deal as far as NYC steam goes; Al Stauffer rated the Mohawks above the Hudsons as multipurpose gems of steam.
"If you restore NYC steam, they will come." This partially corrects one of the worst mistakes in steam preservation history. "Money will come, Ray. Money will come".
This is on the scale of restoring a Big Boy or constructing a PRR T1. It's a huge dream and people LOVE making huge dreams come true.

Don't step on spiders. It's bad luck.
Author:  bigjim4life [ Tue Oct 08, 2024 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
hullmat991 wrote:
Steamguy73 wrote:
This is pure speculation, but it appears that this may be a separate organization. So this, in theory, wouldn't necessarily inhibit the many projects FWRHS has, like the steel fleet. And in theory, it shouldn't inhibit 765 from operating in future.


With all the locomotives being "rescued" over the last 10 years with organizations setup to restore and eventually operate them; it feels like we are reaching a saturation point. Is it really a good idea for another group to pop-up and fight for funding / donations / grants with all the other groups. Call me jaded; I dont want see a locomotive get torn down with a hole in the firebox just to either rust away or gather dust for 20+ years in some shed or under a tarp due to the group not able to get enough support. In my case I support several projects on monthly basis - 2 of them are in the UK; this group would need to demonstrate why I should adjust my limited funding for them to support this one.


msrlha_archivist wrote:
Per the FWRHS Facebook page, the latest update regarding the NKP Mikado indicated it was being considered for future cosmetic restoration at a location to be determined. I understand that it's slightly too small and too similar to the 765 to gather much excitement for fundraising or operation. With the NYC 3001, there is a real chance of getting a shot in the arm from enthused folks.


Sometimes a smaller locomotive is just what is needed though. Yes it may not be able to haul as much as something larger, but it can travel further to smaller lines. Personally I love the look of something the size of 587 or 624. They look more at home on a short line instead of a Berk or Northern.


This is one of my fears when it comes to something like this. How many "big" locomotives have just been restored, or are actually operational, and have virtually nowhere to run? I'm looking at you, Santa Fe's 3751 and 2926. Milwaukee Road 261 occasionally (once a year or less) runs on the Twin Cities and Western...

Some of the other operational gems or engines returning to service either have lines to run on already or operational opportunities abound. Nashville Steam has the Nashville & Eastern that it's set to run on. K-4 1361 has no shortage of interested railroads in Pennsylvania, I believe. Atlantic Coast Line 1504 has the US Sugar lines to run on. Alaska Railroad has interest and PTC, I believe, installed on the 2-8-0 that's nearly finished in Wasilla.

Yes, people will show up and show out to restore this NYC steamer, if that is indeed the announcement. Hopefully it will run on the Indiana Rail Experience, if nowhere else. But - how many more big steamers do we need running, where they have nowhere to run?
Author:  R Paul Carey [ Tue Oct 08, 2024 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
This is sweet speculation!!

I recall, in the 1980s that we (Conrail) did indeed inspect 3001 as a candidate for operation, with Reading Shops the preferred location for the necessary work, then...

The avoidable catastrophe at Dismal Swamp wiped out the ability for any of us to cover these excursions under the terms of commercial insurance.

This enduring hope may yet come to fruition. WOW!!
Author:  Joshua K. Blay [ Tue Oct 08, 2024 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NYC 3001: Is something big coming?
It's not just "where it's going to run?", it's what is it going to pull? Indeed, a now retired engineer with the Fort Wayne group wrote decades again now "the engine is the easy part" in TRAINS or Railfan & Railroad. Another contributing factor is the changing private car world which has certainly not helped with the mainline operations of AT&SF 3751, SP 4449, etc.

The Fort Wayne group has a growing collection of rolling stock (including the restored early SD to go along with 765 thereby reducing motive power concerns on a host railroad), friendly professional relationships, a new director, and plans. This is going to be interesting to watch.

Joshua
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