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Curious Milwaukee Road item
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48492		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bad Order [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Curious Milwaukee Road item
I was in the market for a large propane tank. A friend had one.

After cleaning it up a bit, I looked at the info stamped on the top to see how old it was.

I was quite surprised to see the initials "CMSt.P&P RY" embossed in the top of the tank, along with several dates 10-43 (date of mfg.?), 06-46, 10-51 and 08-61.

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I included two pics of the offending item. In the picture of it standing, note the bent wire handle to the right of the valve protective collar... on the tank between the collar and the handle is stamped the word "UP" with a large arrow stamped above it, pointing at the direction of the handle.... which I take to mean the tank would lay horizontal

My question is what they would have possibly used propane fuel for? (It is propane~ there is a "1075" flammable sticker on the other side of the handle.

I don't know what they used for fuel in the galleys on Dining cars, but I suspect they used propane eventually. Mounted horizontally beneath the car in a rack of some sort, when empty a person would grasp the handle and pull the cylinder out of the rack and replace it with a full one.

What do the rest of you think?
Author:  Nova55 [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
MILW used propane in some snowplows for heat.
Author:  Bad Order [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
Yeah, that could be a possibility.
Author:  Bad Order [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
Now, I'm getting somewhere.... this is from a discussion I googled on "Trainorders":


"IIRC, U.P. preferred to have part of the diner operate on Presto-Logs because they will burn even if the car is snowed in. Getting vapor from underfloor propane tanks, on the other hand, might be questionable at 30 below zero in a Wyoming blizzard."

That validates my theory.
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
Could this have been a propane tank used under passenger cars to power a Waukesha "Ice Engine" a/c system?

Howard P.
Author:  timken2626 [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
Maybe a switch point heater?
Author:  Bad Order [ Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
timken2626 wrote:
Maybe a switch point heater?


No way.
Author:  PaulWWoodring [ Thu Jan 09, 2025 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
Just because it was owned by a railroad doesn't mean it was used directly on or around trains.
Author:  Overmod [ Thu Jan 09, 2025 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
The Ice Engine was the first thing that came to mind when I read this question. Surely some of our resident car mavens will know whether Milwaukee cars used this either for A/C or cookimg. What about maintenance-of-way equipment?

Did Milwaukee have regulations about either pressurized or liquefied gas in tunnels?

Did Milwaukee have their own enclosed warehouse or baggage spaces that would require towmotors or forklifts that could not run on gasoline?

Just as a speculation: propane or LPG doesn't 'go bad' with age the way gasoline does. Some track maintenance equipment equipment might benefit from fuel that can be stored "indefinitely" without concern for replenishment in out-of-the-way locations...
Author:  Paul D [ Thu Jan 09, 2025 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Curious Milwaukee Road item
That is an under car propane cylinder for use by Ice Engines, enginators, heating and cooking depending on the railroad and the car. The tare weight (TW) looks like 104 pounds which is one the low side, I remember some weighing 126 when I handled them years ago. They are built extra heavy so that in case of a derailment the car body can roll on them without guaranteed puncture.

'edit' I should add that the W.C. is the water charge weight. that was the propane plant could set the scale used to fill it with out having to do any calculations. this would be equivelent to a modern 100# tank.

It was a standard design, not sure if it feel under the Pullman Company's rules or what, but most railroads that had propane fired equipment used that tank and they were treated as a pooled resource at major terminals so trains could be refueled without confusion and delay.

One very important aspect of their design is they are set up to draw while laying on their side. that handle welded on the head was to be horizontal below the collar while in the bunker under the car. The valve was orientated so the connection pointed straight up and inside was a snorkel that arced up into the highest point to draw gas. this was aided by the bunkers having a 10 deg (ish) slope from the side of the car towards the center that also helped hold them into the car.

Multiple tanks could be used under cars, three was the standard bunker size, and each position had a high pressure regulator set in 10 psi increments. the highest set position was equipped with a gauge that would tell the carman how full the system was. If it read 20psi the lowest two cylinders had gas and everything else was empty and needed swapping. This set up allowed changing tanks without interrupting the fuel supply and with a sufficient number of week minds it could be done rather quickly.

Regarding drawing vapor in colder temps, Waukesha's bunkers for Enginators had a loop for the exhaust to pass thru to heat the cylinder which probably helped. the additional surface area of multiple tanks helped a lot untill your got down to one cylinder.

maintaining these systems are something I don't regret doing but i certianly don't miss it.
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