Running Steam Under Wire

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 209

The Pennsylvania Railroad and the Reading Company (among others) ran steam under 12.5 kV AC wire daily, well into the 1950s. I have been trying to lead a fact finding effort for my work lately, and I was wondering if anyone on here with experience could answer a few questions:

1) Which, if any, operating procedures changed when running under wire vs. regular operation?

2) Did the railroads deal with arcing owed to the steam?

Any and all responses would be greatly appreciated.

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:58 pm

The PRR and RDG electrlfications were nominally 11,000 Volts 25 Cycles AC in steam days. No one was permitted to go over the coal pile. Firing tools could not be raised. To load water, the fireman had to climb down from the cab or front of the tender, walk around the tender and go up the rear ladder.

At Washington, domes were not to be occupied. B&O Coach Attendants and Pullman Porters politely asked their passengers to come down.

Locomotives had to be specifically authorised. Antennas and horns are a problem. One road sent a roadswitcher to WAS Union Sta. without checking. The horn arced and the track had to be taken out of service until the wire was inspected. The locomotive should have had its axles and bearings taken down and inspected for arc pitting from when the ground return went through the bearings to the axles, wheels and rail.

Phil Mulligan

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 209

EJ Berry wrote:

The PRR and RDG electrlfications were nominally 11,000 Volts 25 Cycles AC in steam days. No one was permitted to go over the coal pile. Firing tools could not be raised. To load water, the fireman had to climb down from the cab or front of the tender, walk around the tender and go up the rear ladder.

At Washington, domes were not to be occupied. B&O Coach Attendants and Pullman Porters politely asked their passengers to come down.

Locomotives had to be specifically authorised. Antennas and horns are a problem. One road sent a roadswitcher to WAS Union Sta. without checking. The horn arced and the track had to be taken out of service until the wire was inspected. The locomotive should have had its axles and bearings taken down and inspected for arc pitting from when the ground return went through the bearings to the axles, wheels and rail.

Phil Mulligan

Thank you very much! It slipped my mind that I own a 1937 RDG Philadelphia Division General Order, and in consulting it I found the following:

Quote:

5. [Steam] Locomotive Operation.
It will be the specific duty of the engineman to know, before entering any electrified zone, that no part of his engine or engine equipment will foul the overhead catenary construction, particular attention being given the position of cab ventilators.
Firing tools must be handled in such manner that they can not come in contact with the overhead wires.
Care must be exercised when using the squirt hose on locomotives to prevent the stream from striking the overhead wires. Squirt hose must not be used when locomotives are in train sheds, or when passing under overhead bridges.
To avoid failure of transmission and catenary insulators and the consequent interruption to the power supply due to the action of steam and smoke on these insulators, enginemen must, so far as possible, avoid stopping their engines under porcelain or wood stick insulators or under highway or other bridges within the electrified zone.

This is a good lead. Gets me some answers (and concrete proof that steam ran under wire, for dubious coworkers).

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:44 pm

The arcing can be awe inspiring. The tests in changing ends on an MU train included the "all pans down" button (RDG pans on the blue and old cars were electrically connected by an 11kV bus line on the roof. If one pan were up all cars would get live 11kV. To stop any car from getting 11kV you had to drop all the pans, then set about isolating the offending car)

It was dark under the trainshed at Reading Terminal. Sometimes when testing the "pans down" function, you would get a three foot arc.

Phil Mulligan

Overmod · **Joined:** Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm **Posts:** 2492

Interestingly, there was apparenly little concern about the steam exhaust, with its wealth of carbon particles and potentially high moisture if priming, causing arcing.

Some British practice used far less clearance between stack and catenary, to the point you'd almost not believe it would be arcing frequently. There are, I think, a couple of YouTube videos that include some transient high-current flashes, although I don't know if they were 'clearance' or exhaust-caused.

co614 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:59 pm

We ran a total of 24 excursions pulled by C&O 614 out of NJT's Hoboken NJ terminal which is fully equipped with overhead wires which power their modern electric consists.

As a precaution they would isolate and shut off the wire over the terminal track we used for static display of the 614 with the cab open for visitors. We never had any issues with arching.

Ross Rowland

JimBoylan · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:01 pm

In 1985 (only 40 years ago), as Conductor on a New Hope & Ivyland RR steam train at Warminster, Pennsylvania station under South Eastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority 11,000 Volt catenary, I had to instruct my engine crew about keeping firing tools below cab roof level. The engine didn't have a squirt hose. They weren't doing anything wrong, but safety required that I instruct.

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:57 pm

Another thing came to mind. Before the 1960's freight cars that could had roofwalks and ladders up. The hand brake wheels and retainer valves were up top and brakemen routinely walked the roofs of the cars. Sigmalling the engine crew was better up there and you were already up there to tie down a handbrake.

RDG did not work freight with electric locomotives (except one very delayed boxcar a customer in West Trenton needed TODAY. It went behind 3 MU cars on a passenger train.)

Hand signalling a backup meant swining your armin a big vertical arc. Thainmen were especially to stay more than 3 feet from the wire when doing this.

PRR had places marked "High Wire" for setting out or switching freight. New Haven motors generally did not run West of Penn Station because their pans, as well as those of some MP54 MU cars, could not reach high wire.

Phil Mulligan

JimBoylan · **Posted:** Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:05 pm

TAN: Pennsylvania RR train crews weren't allowed on top of high cars in Low Wire territory.
At some water plugs in Electrified Territory, it was possible to deaden a short section of adjacent catenary. Columbia, Pennsylvania was an example.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:50 am

My recollection of chasing that first mainline PRR "7002"/1223 doubleheader run from Strasburg to Lancaster and Rockville Bridge in 1985 included seeing at least two vivid white flashes in the steam exhaust as the duo ran down the still-electrified branch between Lancaster and Columbia on that misty, fog-socked morning.

I've never been able to confirm whether or not I saw arcing between the catenary and train, or arcing between other catenary members. Given the relative calamity when an arc from low-hanging catenary put a preserved ex-BR Deltic diesel-electric in the shop for a couple years of repairs (and litigation with insurers) a few years ago, I have to wonder just what I did see that morning..............

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:46 pm

At Leaman Place, Strasburg is adjacent to the PRR/AMTK Main Line. It does not run under the 12 kV contact but does run under the 69 kV transmission line WAY up the cat pole. It was a humid evening, so much so the catenary was buzzing. 1223 was doing the runaround when it sent a puff of water vapor up into the transmission line (69 kV) where it fluoresced.

Phil Mulligan

Overmod · **Joined:** Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm **Posts:** 2492

A thread on the 'new and improved' Classic Trains forum discusses PRR M 4-8-2 operations:

https://forum.trains.com/t/why-no-pennsylvania-4-8-2s-in-passenger-service/405769/4

In it you will find a link to a library of PRR ETTs, many of which contain specific information about taking water under wire.

For example, on the New York Division in 1946, at County on Track 5 you had to turn Sectionalizing Switch 55, on cat pole 31.60, to OPEN to take water, This de-energized the catenary between 57' east and 280' west of the standpipe location. You had to put the switch back closed when leaving. Meanwhile at WA3 there were 'automatic' standpipes that de-energized the cat for you when you moved the standpipes -- on track A from 250' E to 110'W, and on Track 2 from 200' E to 70'W respectively (I would presume that this may have had something to do with running blower or for double-headed consists).

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2025 5:34 pm

We operate under wire all the time, and it is 25k volt wire. All the named precautions apply. We don't have any active standpipes any longer, so all water is from ground hose connection.

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1704

IRM runs steam under wire… and TVRM used to at the Chattanooga Choo Choo.

I’m sure some others are out there in the present day.

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:50 am

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

IRM runs steam under wire… and TVRM used to at the Chattanooga Choo Choo.

I’m sure some others are out there in the present day.

600 volt trolley wire is hazardous but much less dangerous than mainline voltages. Put it in perspective: in theory the 600 volts is present in the light sockets in the streetcars. There is not the risk of arcing across distances - measureableby the relative dimensions of the wire insulators.

Running Steam Under Wire

Who is online