What year did the Budd Company change its method of constructing stainless steel cars?

Older type cars are supposedly not recommended for acquisition due to faults developing.

Elaborate a little ?



Old Time Trains
oldtimetrains@rrmail.com

> What year did the Budd Company change its
> method of constructing stainless steel cars?

> Older type cars are supposedly not
> recommended for acquisition due to faults
> developing.

> Elaborate a little ?

Approximately 1949-1950, Budd began to construct their cars with grider side frame construction as opposed to truss side frame construction. Basically, the beam formed by the window sill, side sheet, and side sill held the car up. In this kind of construction the side is solid, and the flutes that matched the older style were simply cosmetic over the side plate.

Earlier cars were truss construction, where the posts and diagonals going all the way to the roof, plus the roof itself, formed the strength of the body construction. The flutes were then screwed or riveted over the truss.

Pre WWII cars also had a different kind of side sill construction, which is hidden more into the body, and extends higher up. Very early Budd cars (pre 1940), also had a smaller center sill construction.

The 1949 date is not a strict cut off. Santa Fe Pine series sleepers and UP Pacific series sleepers straddle this line; and without notes, I cannot remember which is which, but one of these were built after the date with truss sides. Also, reportedly some CB&Q Silver series cars were built in the early 1950's with truss sides.

The real issue is not which is stronger due to a specific weakness; the issue with most Budd cars has been cracks caused by chloride precipitation corrosion, developing in the side and center sills. Also, if anyone during the lifetime of the car did something naughty with a welder or torch, the weld spatter or holes would propogate cracks from the "poisoning" of the stainless with foreign material. Another common source of cracks in Budd cars are at the point where the carbody truck bolster meets the side sill. This is a carbon steel to stainless joint, and the carbon steel will form a hydraulic rust bulge in the side sill, which often breaks loose the attaching weld and starts radial cracks.

If your aim is to take a Budd car and modify it into some sort of Private Car, it is easier to move windows around in a truss car than in a girder car.

Do not trust most of the ex-Amtrak heritage cars you may see on the secondary market. Amtrak replaced the original side skirts and those cars that did not have skirts with a side sill cover that is a quarter round 18 gauge piece of stainless steel. It does an excellent job of camoflaging the side sill defects.

Steve Zuiderveen


SZuidervee@aol.com

The Budd Co. continually evolved it's designs including the methods of construction from the '30's until they built the last of the so-called "conventional" light weight cars in 1973. Though as Steve said, probably the most widely recognized change was when Budd went from truss to girder construction. Externally, the change was subtle, though it involved a completely different way of assembling the carbody. One of the major benefits to this change was, in addition to being somewhat easier to manufacture, was that it produced a carbody that was considerably more water tight. The truss cars were no doubt water tight when they left the factory, but over the years they were far more prone to leakage than the girder cars. Budd cars are notorious for leaking as it is, (and even more so after 50 years of service) but the girder cars tend to leak in only a few easy- to-caulk areas. It is this leakage that is the principal reason some people favor the so-called girder cars. However, not all Budd truss cars leak, and there are other reasons to favor a truss car, such as removable pier panels. Girder cars have integral pier panels which is one major reason they are more water tight. But, if your pier panels are dinged, dented, or buffed, (as they are on most Budd cars) you can replace them on your truss car but not on a girder. With a girder car you're stuck with what you've got.

Any Budd car ordered after February of 1948 was a girder, except for the 4 dome cars built for the Kansas City Zephyr in 1952. Evidently it took Budd a while to adapt the girder construction to the dome car frame.

The small center sill was a fixture on Pre-war Budd equipment, but it did show up on several cars built for the AT&SF (16 coaches and 6 lounges) that were ordered prior to WWII but not delivered until 1946. And Budd started going to a smaller center sill again in the early 60's with the UP coaches built in '61 and the RPO's built in '63, but these cars of course had the girder style frame.

It is my opinion that there is not any one style of Budd car that is the most advantages for a potential private owner. The overall condition of the car has to be taken into consideration. Because of the odd side sill construction of the pre-war cars, the cracks that are so prevelant in the ex-Amtrak post-war Heritage Fleet side sills and collision posts are not evident. (What you don't see can't hurt you??) Also, the pre-war collision posts don't seem as prone to cracks as the post-war designs. So, it's conceivable that it could cost less in structural repairs to upgrade a pre-war Budd to Amtrak certification than a post-war Budd.

Any car that was retired early and "only driven on Sundays" since say, 1970, is also generally a better candidate for an upgrade since there is less chance of there having been badly executed repairs or modifications to the frame. Also, different cars from the same order can vary greatly in condition depending on how carefully they have been maintained, whether they have been in a wreck, etc.

OK, enough rambling about one of my favorite subjects.


domeliner@hotmail.com