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| Rules relating to offering cab rides https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48779 |
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| Author: | Wowak [ Fri May 30, 2025 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rules relating to offering cab rides |
The new boss wants to re-visit the idea of offering cab rides to the public. The reason I was told we stopped offering them was because we didn't have enough seats in the cab. I've been trudging through CFRs, but so far I haven't found anything that regulates cab rides. If your organization offers cab rides, what rules have you found applicable and were there any other hurdles? We operate under NORAC and are self-insured. |
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| Author: | Russ Fischer [ Fri May 30, 2025 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
The Durango & Silverton offers cab rides on both steam and diesel locomotives. Riders are required to sign a release, dress appropriately, and obviously, obey the instructions of the crew. The railroad provides overalls and basic PPE and the crews give a safety briefing prior to departure. There are no regulations that I am aware of pertaining to offering cab rides. If you do purchase insurance, your insurance company might have something to say about it though. |
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| Author: | BnOTolSub [ Fri May 30, 2025 5:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
The information the Class l I worked at was that the FRA required a permanently mounted seat for all occupants of the cab. |
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| Author: | MD Ramsey [ Fri May 30, 2025 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
BnOTolSub wrote: The information the Class l I worked at was that the FRA required a permanently mounted seat for all occupants of the cab. Yes, any "general system" operation for other than steam locomotives, Part 229 requires that cab seats shall be securely mounted and braced. This is a mechanical requirement. Occupancy and if they sit or stand is up to the railroad. MDR |
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| Author: | MD Ramsey [ Fri May 30, 2025 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
FRA does not address who occupies the cab beyond crew members. This is up to the railroads safety assessment and risk they are willing to take. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36316&p=212334&hilit=Cab+Riders#p212334 MDR |
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| Author: | Bartman-TN [ Fri May 30, 2025 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
Check out the Track Safety Standards. There is a standard there that can get you. The occupied passenger train standard has been applied to non-employees riding in the cabs of locomotives, in cabooses, etc. On excepted track, this is not allowed. Bart |
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| Author: | Wowak [ Sat May 31, 2025 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
Bartman-TN wrote: Check out the Track Safety Standards. There is a standard there that can get you. The occupied passenger train standard has been applied to non-employees riding in the cabs of locomotives, in cabooses, etc. On excepted track, this is not allowed. Bart None of our track is excepted, so that at least isn't a concern here. |
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| Author: | Wowak [ Sat May 31, 2025 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
BnOTolSub wrote: The information the Class l I worked at was that the FRA required a permanently mounted seat for all occupants of the cab. That's what I've been told also, but I'm having difficulty finding it within the CFR to ensure that we comply. |
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| Author: | Bartman-TN [ Sun Jun 01, 2025 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
Quote: That's what I've been told also, but I'm having difficulty finding it within the CFR to ensure that we comply. Check out the FRA enforcement manuals, available on their website if you hunt enough. The enforcement manuals explain how the FRA applies the standards. Some of the standards are rather broad or unclear, but the enforcement manual explains how they are to be used. It is amazing how many of these practices are found there and not in the actual CFR Standards. Bart |
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| Author: | Bobulltech [ Sun Jun 01, 2025 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
Bartman-TN wrote: Check out the Track Safety Standards. There is a standard there that can get you. The occupied passenger train standard has been applied to non-employees riding in the cabs of locomotives, in cabooses, etc. On excepted track, this is not allowed. Bart Does that count for speeders, motor cars and hi rails? |
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| Author: | mldeets [ Sun Jun 01, 2025 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
This may be covered in Locomotive Safety Standards which just happens to be Part 229. A further investigation reveals Cabs, Floors and Passageways are covered in paragraph 119.....mld |
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| Author: | Bartman-TN [ Sun Jun 01, 2025 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
Quote: Does that count for speeders, motor cars and hi rails? Nope. By definition, speeders, motor cars and hirails are not trains. However, hirails do have safety standards about regular inspections and testing, something motorcars, pedal bikes, etc., don't have. Bart |
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| Author: | Bruce_Mowbray [ Mon Jun 02, 2025 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
My reply comes with first-hand experience. Back when the 2317 and 3254 were in service, Steamtown did have a cab ride program. The reason this was able was because both of those locomotives are equipped with a standard third seat in the enclosed cabs. The Third seat was located "out of the way" for cab operations, being located behind the fireman's seat. The "cab rider" would be told that while the locomotive is in motion, the "rider" MUST remain in this third seat at all times with the cab door shut to prevent the rider from falling out of the cab. On the 26, there are ONLY two seats, and the cab is of the "open" design. The fireman's seat is located where the fireman has full access to the injector, can see forward down the track without anything in the way of their view, can ring the bell (should the auto bell ringer fail) and can easily get down to the cab floor to monitor the fire, including the shoveling of coal, then back up to the seat to perform regular duties without anybody getting in the way. When a third person is in the cab, in order for them to be out of harm's way and not to obstruct the fireman, they are required to stand on the moving tender apron, which is typically not moving in unison with the locomotive, in the open doorway, holding on to the cab wall or windowsill (if the window is open). With that in mind, even if there was a written rule, the safety of the inexperienced visitor/cab rider should be paramount. |
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| Author: | MD Ramsey [ Mon Jun 02, 2025 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rules relating to offering cab rides |
My suggestion would be to determine what kind of tourist railroad you are to determine FRA applicability regarding all of these referenced regulations. See: https://railroads.dot.gov/legislation-r ... -railroads Part 229 and Part 213 apply only to touristy railroads that operate on the general system. As far as I know, there are no FRA regulations preventing cab riders, general System or not. It is up to the individual railroad to assess the risk and mitigate accordingly. My 2 cents Mike Ramsey FRA Passenger Rail Safety Specialist (Ret) |
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