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Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48835		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ethan Harty [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
I'm attaching a link to a Google Drive folder with some pictures of the oil burner and pan on the Vulcan 0-4-0 that I'm working on. The burner looks different from others I have seen. It's about 3.75" inches wide, which seems very big for an engine of this size. It's on a 33 Ton standard-gauge saddle tank engine, just under 50 boiler HP. I think this engine was outfitted with the oil burning system in the 1950s when it worked at Gulf Power in Florida.
Here's my questions:
1. Is it too big for my engine? If so, does that matter? Is there a risk to having too big an oil burner, or is it just about efficiency?
2. Do the slot widths seem too wide? I have heard a few times that they should be about the width of a hacksaw blade.
3. Has anyone ever seen a burner shaped like this, or had experience firing with one?
4. Any other observations welcome.

I'm a rookie with oil burning. I have had the great opportunity to fire with oil burners a grand total of twice.

Link to pictures:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link
I'd like to attach the pictures directly to this post, but an error message keeps appearing when I try. If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong, let me know please.
Author:  Dick_Morris [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
I don't know anything about burners, but I have a copy of an SP document, "Program of Research on Oil Burning Steam Locomotives" prepared in 1951. It runs over 200 pages. I haven't looked at it recently, but it has diagrams/drawings of several styles of burners. Send me your email address via PM and I'll send a copy.
Author:  John Risley [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
I would think size matters, but I also am a rookie at most of this stuff. My experience comes second hand. The Polson #2 {2-8-2 logging engine} came to mid continent with a burner in the firebox. That history is lost too, by whom, size and repair. When Skip took that engine over the burner or at least consumption of fuel was all kitty wumpus. It had horrible fuel milage and would back fire occasionally. Skip was totally new to oil burners as well. The only oil burners were two cranes and they were both scrapped. After multiple attempts to position and some how modify that oil burner, he bought a new one that had been cast up from Steve Butler. Jim Eng did some machine work and wala the burner issue was fixed. Both Skip and Jim Eng are now deceased and can't double check my story. Sorry but maybe if you contacted Steve Butler he might be able to help with ideas for a smaller locomotive?

Also forgot to mention that the original burner had been broken and welded at least once. The proper sized burner seemed to be the answer.
Author:  EDM [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
I did some preliminary groundwork for a museum group that I'm a member of involving an oil burner installation. I have a copy, very brittle, of a 1907 book on 'practical engineering' which has a section on oil burning steam locomotives. What caught my eye was the Booth-Wade burner, apparently a casting. I then sketched up a fabricated version that our excellent fabricator at the museum could build out of flat stock and channel.

Then, the Everett Railroad converted their number 11 to oil, using a burner and a few other components from Stockton Locomotive Works out in CA. There are pictures of that burner online, perhaps on Facebook. It looks like a Von Boden design, which just might be a development of the Booth-Wade, with an added lower 'lip' to add some turbulence.

The burner of the Vulcan looks very crude, perhaps home-made. The steam slot, below the oil outlet on both the Booth-Wade and Von Boden, is very thin; the drawing for the Booth-Wade calls for 1/32 of an inch. Looking at the Vulcan burner, I would suspect that it would waste a lot of steam and not atomize the oil very well.

As a 'disclaimer' I had quite a bit of experience firing former FEC 4-6-2 148 back in the '70s. I was able to make sketches of the various valves and piping used to control the fire, but could not remember what type of burner the old girl had. I don't think I paid much attention to that part of the system, wish I had now.
Author:  Great Western [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
Mr. Harty?
There are a couple of oil burning locos at Stettler, though a different, and much larger size. If you could get permission to crawl around in the firebox of Alberta Prairie No. 41, perhaps there are things to be learned?
International Library of Technology Vol. 267C -- Locomotive Operation -- has a good section on oil burning. (I'll send you a private message) It gives oil and heat values and variations. That will count for a lot for you, whether you are burning diesel, bunker, or crude. I am assuming you can get sweet crude in your area?
Proper vapourization seems to be the key, plus care with firing to find that sweet spot in firing to avoid excess smoke, tube leakage, or crown sheet damage.
Presumably, the existing system worked well for your engine?
As always, best of luck with the project.
Author:  Russ Fischer [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
That looks like something homemade. It also appears to be deformed from the heat.

As for sizing, too big will cause problems. How large is the firebox? I have had some experience with oil burning conversions and set up on the Durango & Silverton. We use a burner similar to the Von Boden design which we have custom made. The larger engines get a 2 1/2” and smaller engines get a 2” wide burner. That measurement is for the oil and atomizer slot width not overall width.
Author:  PMC [ Sun Jul 06, 2025 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
Ethan Harty wrote:
I'd like to attach the pictures directly to this post, but an error message keeps appearing when I try. If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong, let me know please.

If the photo needs to be resized (for example, you get a message that says something like "the file must be 1023" etc.), which is true of almost every photo, here are some instructions for resizing the photo: viewtopic.php?p=347542#p347542
Author:  SAS [ Mon Jul 07, 2025 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
I think it's the same in the US:
When a steam locomotive has two safety valves, each of them must be able to let more steam go through than the amount necessary to keep boiler pressure within the limits. If you suddenly have more firing power than what the safety valves were chosen for, you need bigger safety valves. And their connection to the boiler must let go through more steam.
And more firing power possibly could overstress the boiler, especially the firebox.
I would make sure that a fixed throttle for oil and steam is used and is enough for fullfilling boiler regulations.
Author:  CCDW [ Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
That is a terrible excuse for an oil burner. I suspect it will cause you problems. Search Von Boden (Bodon) oil burner on RYPN. For a small boiler a 1-1/2" should do well. People out there have built them and they work well.
Author:  Brian Smith [ Wed Jul 09, 2025 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thoughts On This Oil Burner?
Your next burner will need to be raised a couple inches from the firebrick floor, and aimed at the firebrick flash wall below the firedoor, not inclined like it is now.
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