Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions on making new wood windows for heavyweight cars? We have had a set made for our ec-CPR wood Colonist car and, while they are standing up well, the cost was out of sight even though they were paid for under a grant. We have a woodwork shop at Squamish and would like to make our own. Has anyone done this and if so what kind of cutters were used in milling the parts and what were the preferred species of wood? Has anyone found a good source for window hardware? Any suggestiond are appreciated

http://www.wcra.org
gandmferguson@shaw.ca

> Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions on
> making new wood windows for heavyweight
> cars?

At IRM we're constantly making new wooden windows for various interurban, freight (read: cabooses) and passenger cars. Making a basic window is pretty straightforward; the most time-consuming part is finishing work. I would suggest white oak, assuming that interior finish doesn't factor into it; after that, pretty much all you need for a basic window is a table saw, a morticing machine and perhaps a jig to make tennons. IRM's window expert is Bob Kutella - I would highly advise contacting him c/o IRM and asking for more specific and practical advice.

Frank Hicks

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com

If I can add to what Frank has said;
1. wood ... white oak is excellent for strength workability and life. If possible get kiln dried clear wood. You will save a lot of money if you develop a source of rough sawn lumber and finish it yourself (of course you will need a planer). Some of the heavyweights I have seen have 1-1/4" thick frames which can be milled from 1-1/2" rough cut. Grain selection is very important in windows and you must avoid "crazy grain" that can cause warpage.
2. tooling ... there are a bunch of places listed on the internet that provide cutter kits for shapers and heavy duty routers that will take most of the fiddling out of the construction. These can be custom made to match a historical design.
3. glue ... use an expanding waterproof glue for the joints to seal them.
4. sealing ... make sure all surfaces are sealed, especially end grain and glazing grooves.
5. glazing ... use a 100% silicone to bed the glass or something compatible if you are using polycarbonate.
6. glazing molding ... this is a fiddle job and must be part of the sealing process.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

A shaper and a decent set of cope and style cutters will make the job go very well. I have a GilBilt shaper made from a kit that does fine and didn't cost a lot. My cutters came from a discount woodworkers supply. I paid more for a set with good carbide tips and they do well in hard and soft woods.

Good straight grained wood is an absolute. the species isn't critical, but in general hardwoods seem to last better than softwoods outdoors, especially if you don't have the resources to frequently maintain the car. Poplar might be the budget alternative to white oak or mahoganny.

A lot of these sash were joined by expanding tenons in blind mortises. Even Norm Abrams doesn't do this anymore. I have had good luck with countersunk screws through the styles into the rails at the corner joints along with glue in the cope.

Making jigs will speed up the mass production process considerably if you are doing a car full of sash all the same (theoretical) size. If there are more than slight differences which can be compensated for by fudging all sash to the smallest size, a hand held power planer will take a shave down the edges to custom fit them nicely.

Good luck on an endless project.

Dave

I work at a technical school in Georgia so I thought I would remind ya'll that these folks can often do work for the cost of materials. > Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions on
> making new wood windows for heavyweight
> cars? We have had a set made for our ec-CPR
> wood Colonist car and, while they are
> standing up well, the cost was out of sight
> even though they were paid for under a
> grant. We have a woodwork shop at Squamish
> and would like to make our own. Has anyone
> done this and if so what kind of cutters
> were used in milling the parts and what were
> the preferred species of wood? Has anyone
> found a good source for window hardware? Any
> suggestiond are appreciated


karenandray@juno.com

> I work at a technical school in Georgia so I
> thought I would remind ya'll that these
> folks can often do work for the cost of
> materials.

DARN GOOD SUGGESTION !! How many of us fail to use or develop resources close at hand!

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Making jigs will speed up the mass
> production process considerably if you are
> doing a car full of sash all the same
> (theoretical) size. If there are more than
> slight differences which can be compensated
> for by fudging all sash to the smallest
> size, a hand held power planer will take a
> shave down the edges to custom fit them
> nicely.

I think you mean to make the sash slighly large (to the largest opening) and then plane or sand the edges down to fit the specific opening.

Since the sash is fitted to a specific opening, I would do the same thing that the railroads did. That is to stamp the sash edge with a number to designate the window opening. Your existing sash should show what system the railroad used. It might be even number on one side and odd on the other starting at a specific end.

Brian Norden


bnorden49@earthlink.net

> Since the sash is fitted to a specific
> opening, I would do the same thing that the
> railroads did. That is to stamp the sash
> edge with a number to designate the window
> opening. Your existing sash should show what
> system the railroad used. It might be even
> number on one side and odd on the other
> starting at a specific end.

> Brian Norden

LSE167 was built by Jewett Car Co. in 1915. The side windows were 13/16" mahogany numbered port side even and starboard side odd. When we got the car the window frames were dust held together by the glass and putty. I built a set of display (cosmetic) frames using a jig holding to 1/16" clearance on each side and very little planing work was necessary for a final fit. The important thing is to have the frame wide enough so that the latches and tensioners properly engage the tracks. It is also important to take a close look at the window design since improvements may be made in the work to prevent leaks. The design of LSE167 has the window frames pushed against the outside steel sitting on the steel belt rail. With no weather seal system water collects around the window post and drips down the car side causing heavy corrosion on the window post channels and rust pack bulges between the side plating and sill. The was not corrected despite a construction change in the LSE170 series cars and this defect shows up in pictures before the cars were 15 years old. Just something else to look for during restoration.


lamontdc@adelphia.net