If you haven't read the article on the efforts to build a state railroad museum in New Jersey check it out at the link below. Note how this non-profit group is openly aligned and rallying for the out-of-power Republicans. Two observations:

1. The Democratic Govenor has 2 1/2 years left to his term. This would seem to insure the effort will be dead until then (assuming he loses the next election - not a sure thing).

2. More important - aren't non-profit 501c(3) organizations specifically prohibited by law from this kind of political activity.

I think this effort is way off track (pun intended).

Article on NJ Museum
tom@progress1.net

> 2. More important - aren't non-profit
> 501c(3) organizations specifically
> prohibited by law from this kind of
> political activity.

Mostly no, actually. The regulations covering 501c3 lobbying activity are involved, and specific cases should be discussed with one's legal council. However, there are several different kinds and degrees of activity and different proportions of their total funding that 501c3s can spend on various kinds of political advocacy. The key is choosing the right status and being very careful about keeping up with one's reporting requirements.

eledbetter@rypn.org

> If you haven't read the article on the
> efforts to build a state railroad museum in
> New Jersey check it out at the link below.
> Note how this non-profit group is openly
> aligned and rallying for the out-of-power
> Republicans.

Oh, poppycock. I see nothing of the sort.

ONE member made an observation in the article saying a bill wouldn't get passed under the current administration (probably 100% true); he said nothing about "we have to get rid of the Democrats and replace them with Republicans". Official rep Ann Miller specifically said, and I quote, "We're trying to move forward regardless of what's going on with the legislature, hoping that someone will clear the cobwebs from their brains and realize they're hurting the state." Is the N.J. legislature 100% Democrat?

The confounded truth of the matter is that this group in NJ has been beating themselves bloody and senseless trying to get ANY museum set up ANYWHERE in New Jersey for close to two decades or more. Put another way, they've been screwed over left and right by both parties. They're the biggest "homeless" rail preservation project in the world at the moment. Several active participants threw up their hands long ago and retreated to their basement model layouts.

They're not lobbying for political purposes. They're lobbying for the state to finally be decisive and determine once and for all if they're going to support such a museum. True, there may be lessons to learn from the New Jersey model of what NOT to do, but politics ain't part of this equation.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Why wait on the government at all? Why not just build it themselves if they want it built? If they have been waiting for two decades for govt.support, in that amount of time they could have bought some real estate and be well along on their plans.

Let these NJ railfans put their money where their mouth is and do it themselves. Get governemtn out of rail preservation.

Tod Engine Foundation
rick@todengine.org

Right on the point!!!!!!

When we look around at the preservation effort only a tiny bit of the museum effort owes its existance to taxpayer generosity. With the possible exception of TEA money, government "assistance" is rather sparce, and if one looks around our "universe" most great collections were assembled without OPM (other people's money).

Look at the terrific collection the Reading people have managed to assemble, and now their excellent plan to acquire Real Estate. I marvel at the collection and effort at the OERM and other sites that I have visited. It is called Vision and Leadership! I will visit Portola this week and I am sure it will be a most pleasent experience.

Government money isn't always the answer. Look at the problems in Altoona and with the K4. Hopefully the new team will be able to be much better custodians of the public's investment in their community. State mjuseums are dependent on state funding processes. If not for the efforts of the Friends, the RRMPA would not nearly be the success that it is, and in my opinion if solely dependent on the farebox and the legislature would be very far from what it is today.

I see a few problens in NJ that would give some members of the legislature concern,especially in the allocation of TEA funds. If the folks in Jersey were really serious rather than fragmented they could come together to move forward on their own inititive.

If the folks 40 miles to the west in Reading can do it and do it so well, there is rreally no reason why the folks in Jersey can't. Just look at the folks in Allaire snd their "gem" of a museum. It has been done in the Garden State. So there is really no excuse!

Leadership!, Not OPM!!!!!


v-scarpitti@att.net

There may be valid arguments for deciding that public assistance is the most rational approach to museum building - i don't know enough about the particulars of the Joisey group to have a valid opinion. I do know that public funds seem to have built a fine museum in Spencer, NC. from a collection of decaying structures and miscellaneous rusty iron. However, the catalytic involvement of a private non profit development and political action support group was required the get the state off its fat butt. Not sure what the lesson is here unless politics is necessary if one wants to go the public route, not that private organizations don't have micropolitical issues large enough to cripple themselves also. Sorry, Sandy I don't think we can escape it unless we deal with privately owned operations like Mr Levin's or Mr Jacobson's where the buck stops at the desk of the man who signs the checks drawn on his own account.

Schizophrenic management - consider a case study, of a developing railroad musuem on a city owned site, with a contract operator umbrella organization operating two other facilities in the same area. They accepted the operating contract to gain more power and control over a nearby piece of property which supported another greater interest from their POV.

The city subsidizes the operation on a shoestring with barely adequate funding to keep the utilities on and a ticket seller at the front entrance.

Recently, a museum director with a strong development and programming background was hired for those strengths by the umbrella organization. He has proposed many potentially highly remunerative programs all of which have been shot down by the director of the umbrella organization because - and I am not joking here - he fears that if the site becomes self supporting, and in fact starts to generate real income, the city will no longer supply its annual pittance.

Like all museums, and in fact much more so than most, there is a huge amount of deferred maintenence which could easily eat up any rational amount of earned income and still allow the museum to show a slight loss every year.

Who says Americans can't appreciate irony?

So, what do we have here? Politics, leadership, both or neither? Certainly it isn't a working or rational approach to anything but stagnation.....

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Rick: the pols love ya ... stay simon-pure and make sure your tax dollars are NOT returned to your district, somebody else will be in line for it.

Mr. Levin & Mr. Jacobson: I deeply admire your business sense and the contributions you both have made to this field. This same sense is unfortunately lacking in most of us ... no guts, no glory and very few leaders!

Speaking for myself I think that when I see a sucessful preservation grant handed out that finally some of my tax money is being spent in a manner I fully approve. Take a look around and see the many different fields where this money is being handed out ... why is railroad preservation not as worthy as any of them ???

Again speaking out myself (and a whole lot of other former Coast Guardsmen) we are sure happy to see the USCGC Bramble preserved at TJ's place ... now will TJ be able to land a buoy setting or ice breaking contract to let her pay for herself ? Should the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic be cut adrift ? Should Steamtown try and land freight hauling contracts or build an intermodal site ? Old schizo' likes to think that these are my tax dollars at work!

lamontdc@adelphia.net

Frankly when I see TEA money going to "my" area of interest, I feel that at least I am getting something for my money. But TEA money is far different than a state embracing my passion and funding it on an ongoing basis.

The premise is that TEA money can be spent in a responsible manner ala the EL Diner Restoration project in the Scranton area or regretably in some questionable ventures such as the "Creek" project in Jersey, which is not really a restoration and really has nothing to do with New Jersey. If I were someone in the legislature and saw the amount of money committed to that project and the fact that the interior has been significantly compromised on a car that has absolutely no connection to transportation in New Jersey, I would have very strong reservations of funding an ongoing expense and captial item in the state's budget.

The same can be said for the TEA money spent on the "Jersey Builder" coaches which are not Amtrak certified or Amtrak compatible and cannot be used to get from Hoboken to Rahway because of the Amtrak regulations.

As I see it there are just too many compeating interests. The M&E is building a fine excursion fleet. It is a private venture with private funding that hopefully will generate revenue not only for the M&E but also for the vaults in Trenton. Mr. Fuller and his folks are doing it with their money.

Yes I like it when the government throws some money to something I can appreciate. But if it blows up, then we might all loose, "the baby with the bath water".

I do not see the Leadership in making it happen either as a private venture or a public institution. Surely with today's budget problems in most of our states, the outlook for a publically funded Jersey Museum does not look like it is on the immediate horizon.

v-scarpitti@att.net

For the record, I was not even attempting to raise the (perfectly valid) question of whether or not government monies or leadership or control would be necessary for a New Jersey transportation/rail museum. I was merely challenging the reader that seemed to think the NJ museum advocates were playing political games with nonprofit monies.

As I said, there are a LOT of things to learn from the New Jersey experience--unfortunately, a LOT of them "what NOT to do" type.

lner4472@bcpl.net

> Rick: the pols love ya ... stay simon-pure
> and make sure your tax dollars are NOT
> returned to your district, somebody else
> will be in line for it.

But what is the alternative? Continue to suck money from the govt. until all we have left is a massive wealth transfer system? Somebody, somewhere has to take a stand against it, and here I am!

Actually I am also building a small industrial museum and doing it all with private money. My money to be exact. So when I say to put your money where your mouth is, I've already done that and from the looks of things will be doing so for a long time to come.

Our local state run industry and labor museum is set to close next month because our glorious state doesn't have the money to give to the state historical society to run it. So much for govt. being the answer.

Tod Engine Foundation
rick@todengine.org

> Our local state run industry and labor
> museum is set to close next month because
> our glorious state doesn't have the money to
> give to the state historical society to run
> it. So much for govt. being the answer.

Ah Yes the wonderful "state of ohio" where we spend our money to "preserve" the highways! It seems the Feds are taking action to send some prop-up money to bail us out and keep the the historical stuff open.

I can almost spit on 40 or so pieces of historic traction equipment in this state that are fading away exponentially because the owners cannot fund the $300K to $500K per car to restore them. There is not enough interest to even provide shelter. The only reason that anything is left is because of private initiative that expected followup. As an equipment owner I can testify to money spent with nothing accomplished. Little things like having to fund your own health insurance after a company default or trying to live within a retirement budget (or die early) or having a family with its mega buck requirements prevent most of us from following in your footsteps. So an era disappears and memories, pictures and chicken coops are all that is left ... too bad, so sad.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Note how this non-profit group is openly
> aligned and rallying for the out-of-power
> Republicans.

I didn't get that from the article. But I wouldn't trust any article written by a reporter who thinks that there are "feudal efforts" going on in New Jersey. (Somebody ought to teach the reporter some manors.)

> 2. More important - aren't non-profit
> 501c(3) organizations specifically
> prohibited by law from this kind of
> political activity.

No.

501(c)(3) organizations can lobby. My wife lobbies Congress annually on behalf of 501(c)(3) organizations.

What they can't do is give political contributions. But nothing stops their trustees, board members, or supporters from doing so.

JAC

Hi friends,

The long and the short of this (from the eyes of a Garden State resident) is that politics on the city, county and state level have stalled this project.

It is unfortunate that someone made a partisan statement, but the only reason the museum got traction under Republican governor Whitman was that she had two consecutive terms and it benefitted her home turf of western New Jersey.

NJ governors from the GOP have a bad habit of hiding defecits only for the next sucker to discover. Kean (R) did it to Florio (D) and Whitman (R) did it to McGreevey (D and current leader). Don't get offended, the Dems stick it to the GOP, too, in other ways. It is equal opportunity, bi-partisan skewering. ;-) NJ politicians make Tony Soprano look like a saint.

Whitman and her interim (in place after she went to Washington) spent like drunken model railroaders at a brass train convention. Now we have a mess.

Also, on the local level, the NJ museum project has been hung up in everything from blackmail to out and out back room dickering that would have made the Camden & Amboy folks proud (NJ government was once "run" by the C&A).

In the end, the dedication of the preservationists have kept the project afloat. Yes, they have caught some of the flack, but as the story evolves, it is clear to many of us that they have done an incredible job just keeping the project alive in the face of typical NJ politics.

Rob

PS: You can bet that if they named Port Reading the site of the museum and restored the McMyler coal dumper, Governor McGreevey would find the cash for a home-county project.



rdavis@rypn.org

Excellent point, Bennett.

I will add one twist that often gets overlooked. The NJ project has been tied to state politics from the start when NJ Transit donated to collection sans money, storage or proper planning on their part.

It was the age-old story of take-it-or-scrap it.

Back when the collection came together, there were excellent, intact, state-owned locomotive facilites that would have given the museum a shop and display area. One was the small PRR terminal at South Amboy and the other was the CNJ locomotive shop at Elizabethport. Just demolished was the CNJ roundhouse at Communipaw in Liberty State Park.

Had the NJ legislature galvinzed support, we would have a museum set up with excellent facilities.

Unfortunately, some politicos started a "we want it in our town" campaign that stalled the project amidst long examination studies.

E'port and SA fell to the wrecking ball.

What was left was a choice of open fields to start from scratch in.

The politicians could have helped stop this, instead, they helped create it!

Rob



rdavis@rypn.org

Politics are hard to avoid. We ran into major problems while stabilizing the locomotives of the Eagle Lake & West Branch Railroad. Our organization, The Allagash Alliance Group, is a 501c corporation.

While working on the project, we had to move some heavy jacking equipment From Churchill Lake up Eagle Lake to the site.

Unfortunatly low water conditions forced us to load the equipment in the boats at a place called John's Bridge. (An existing bridge crossing the Allagash Waterway between Churchill Lake and Eagle Lake)

No access is allowed at the bridge but we got permission from the Bureau of Parks & Lands to transfer our equipment there.

The next thing we knew our project was being used as an excuse to open more access points along the Waterway and in particular at John's Bridge!!

What made it worse was the former (don't let the door bang your butt on-the-way-out)Conservation Commisioner, Ron Lavaglio, headed the effort to open access and specificly used our project as the excuse in a report to a Legislative Committee.

Needless to say, our relationship with the Commisioner soured quite rapidly. In fact, at one point we needed to move in another 50 yards of ballast to finish the roadbed beneath the tenders. We could only do this during the winter with snowmobiles.

With everything in place and all the volunteers (some had to travel 300 miles or more) lined up ready to go we recieved notice from the Bureau's Regional Manager Tim Hall. (No bright light there) that they would not provide the logistic support they had promised. This was less than a week before the scheduled work!

I quickly informed him that if we could not move the ballast then we could not finish our work for another whole year.

I also informed him that he had approximalty 40,000 lbs. of Locomotive tender sitting 4 ft. off the ground on deteriorating wood blocking and that should he continue to withhold the support we needed that the Bureau would assume all liability should a tragedy occur and that they would have to complete the project themselves (i.e. hire a contractor at great expense).

Mr. Hall also took the former Waterway Manager, Tim Caverly, to task over the cost of the project and leveled acusations that the project was poorly managed. In the end the project cost less than $30,000 dollars compared to estimates from contractors approaching $500,000. Mr. Caverly's efforts, it should be noted were very professional and held in high regard.

Its interesting to note that during the entire project not once did Mr. Hall or anyone above the Waterway Manager visit the site our ask any questions. Further more Mr. Hall approved all expenditures.

We provided all the design, engineering, survey, equipment and labour. They never questioned anything! But then again this is the same bunch that built a multi-million dollar dam at Churchill without any permits and almost had to remove it.

Needless to say we where able to move our ballast and complete the project but our relationship with the Bureau never recovered and we have not offered our services again. Many of our crew became very bitter and we never recieved one word of thanks from the Bureau. Not that we sought it but it would have been nice after four years to thousands of hours.

Another time we were invited by the Bureau to testify before a legislative commitee in an effort to get increased funding for specific historic sites in Maine including the railroad.

I took time off to go to Augusta and testify in support of the funding. The Bureau testified against it! They figured that by supporting the bill it might be precieved that they were not doing thier job and preserving these sites!

Then to top it off the Bureau asked us to give up a substaintial portion of the funding scheduled for the Tramway Historic district (where the locomotives are). They where hoping to transfer that money to the project they really wanted to fund (Historic Pemequid)When we found out, we immediatly withdrew our support and the bill was killed.

I apologize for the rambling bitchyness but this topic realy gets my blood pressure rising.

Needless to say, it will be a long time before a help the State with anything!


TCHJJJJ@AOL.COM