In our world of steam locomotives we can point to numerous "basket case" restorations. But after watching "The Hunt for the Lost Squadron" on the History Channel, I believe we have seen one that tops them all. Pulling the remains of a P-38 out from under 250 feet of ice, transportating it back to the US and then restoring back to flying condition has got to top anything we've ever done. I know I got a lump in my throat when she took to the air for the first time in 60 years. And what a restoration.

One of the most interesting moments in the show was at the conclusion when the narrator was asking Why? What possessed these folks to go through what they did just for an airplane? Well, those of us that have ever been involved in any kind of restoration know Why. I know those guys felt the same thing when the Glacier Girl took to the air as I did when 610 rolled a wheel over for the first time in 40 years. Whether it is an airplane, a steam locomotives, or an automobile, the true sense of pride and accomplishment is something you can only appreciate when you been involved in a restoration.

I hope y'all got to see the show. If not, the History Channel often replays their programming so keep an eye out for it.

G. Mark

TVRM Shop Updates by Steve Freer
aw90@comcast.net

I think that's true of any restoration. That first start-up is so special.
When we finished the cosmetic restoration of WP805A, I wanted to "unveil" her by having the High School Band playing the theme music from "2001, a space odyessy" (yes, I know it's a named classical piece, but I don't know its name)with the audience outside the shop building. The roll-up door would rise up, The Marker lights come on, then the number boards, then the headlight, then the mars, and then the B unit behind it would roll her out (prime mover was still not functioning). I thought it would make a very cool, dramtic entrance that way. Oh well, we had a nice sit-down dinner in the shop with her in front of the head table along with Art Lloyd speaking, and other dignataries. That was classy too!
Sometime, the prime mover will finally be repaired, permanently (it has run at times, but always the water leaks came back), and someone will get to push the "go" button, and she will join the ranks of functiong restorations.
Steamcerely,
David D.

djdewey@cncnet.com

Similarly, I believe the History Channel did a special on a B-29 that was restored in Greenland, I believe (another glacier restoration). Sadly, while taxiing for takeoff, the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) caught on fire. The crew got out safely, but the B-29 was ruined.

Veering from fact to fiction, how about "Raise The Titanic?". Entertaining concept-but the subsequent discovery that the Titanic broke in 2 while sinking would really put the kibosh (as does its final resting place of 12,000 feet down or so) on any raising/restoring. But the passage in the book, describing the Titanic's return to the harbor of New York City, sure is fun reading.

Back to fact: a few decades ago, a chap in New Zealand recovered the hulk of a 2-4-2 that had been dumped into a riverbed and restored it to operating condition. Now that's incredible! Gives us hope for other hulks-all we need is money, a place to work on the equipment, and trackage to run on...and insurance coverage. Oh well.

Let's do like the Brits and pool our funds to build a new version of a steamer-I vote for the Pennsy T-1 Duplex!


jcpdeke@aol.com

"Thus Spake Zarathustra" 1896 Ricard Strauss inspired by an 1891 book of the same name by Friedrich Nietzsche.

The popular piece is just the opening minute and a half or so of a half hour tone poem.

Who was Zarathustra, and what did he spake? He was a Persian prophet of the 6th century BC, who was known also by the Greek name Zoroaster, and who founded a religion called Zoroastrianism.

Friedrich Nietzsche, a poetic philosopher was all the rage in Germany when Strauss was a young man. Strauss was fascinated by the strange and sometimes shocking utterances that came out of Nietzsche, particularly one book called 'Thus Spake Zarathustra' which isn't really about the prophet Zarathustra at all. Nietzsche simply used Zarathustra as a spokesman, into whose mouth he put his own philosophy - which had much more to do with the theory of evolution that with any prophet or religion at all. Nietzsche was quite opposed to religion in general, his Zarathustra preaches the evolution of man by the process of natural selection, the constant growth of the human race from the Ape of so long ago to the Superman of the future.

So now you know more than you probably really cared to. ;)

>I wanted to "unveil" her
> by having the High School Band playing the
> theme music from "2001, a space
> odyessy" (yes, I know it's a named
> classical piece, but I don't know its
> name)with the audience outside the shop
> building.

Thank you for the explanation Mik! In addition to the railroad interest, I enjoy classical music. I listen the whole tone poem often.

I keep missing that History Channel episode with the planes in the ice.....

Joshua

joshua@joshuakblay.com

"Glacier Girl's" restoration is really fantastic, but I think the comparison is a little strained. My reasoning is that, I believe 8 P38's were stranded with her, plus the fact is that individual parts from wrecks and wrecksites are available around the world. We are also talking about a lightweight metal fabrication; some parts that could easily be fabricated in a High School shop (alright, not easily, but you get it...). If there were three Y-6b's sitting around in various states of decay, it might be possible to revive one of them, albeit under tremendous financial pressure. The Roanoke locomotives are always dredged up as part of this argument, and rightfully so. Steam locomotives can not be easily torn down and put back together by a single enthusiast on a low budget, and in one's garage or basement. All that being said, here goes my initial list of basket case restoration choices:

Any of the ex-C&O Kanahwa's in Virginia.

The ex- PRR B6 in Deleware(?)

ex- PRR I1sa in NY state

Any of the ex- UP Bigboys

The single remaining SP cab forward.

In fairness, the I1sa and the Bigboys should probably not be on the list, as they don't appear to be locomotives in extremis. I invite participants to help fill-in the list of "basket-cases". I am told that engineering and unlimited funding can solve any problem.


glueck@maine.edu

...was actually a PBS Nova episode which chronicled the incredible story of the discovery, and attempted recovery of a B-29 abandoned in Greenland after an emergency landing over 50 years ago. The "Kee Bird" crash landed on an ice-cap in Greenland in 1947. As was mentioned earlier, the herculean effort which included rebuilding all four engines on-site in a make-shift shop, ended tragically. The aircraft's APU caught fire while rolling down the dozer-built runway as she was about to take to the skies.
If I remember correctly, the extreme conditions also caused the death of the expedition's master mechanic during the on-site restoration.

SJHussar@aol.com

I think its probably better to be a fan of Strauss than of Nietzsche.

Here's a partial translation of the book (I found it while looking up the dates) - I think it more annoying than inspiring, but perhaps it reads better in German.

Thus Spake Zarathustra - Friedrich Nietzsche

> In fairness, the I1sa and the Bigboys should
> probably not be on the list, as they don't
> appear to be locomotives in extremis. I
> invite participants to help fill-in the list
> of "basket-cases". I am told that
> engineering and unlimited funding can solve
> any problem.

Don't forget the growing number of traction cars brought back from the woodpile (something I have not managed to do). I know, I know, backyard stuff when compared to a majestic steamer but never the less approaching $1 mill. for a real spiffy job on an older model. Would it really take that much money to reproduce a good baldwin traction truck and make it possible for about three dozen chicken coops to be back on the rails ???

lamontdc@adelphia.net

The problem is often not in the fabrication, but the documentation.

Agricultural steam enthusiasts often run into that - A minor repair that any competent weldor COULD do for $150 instead is required to be done in a code shop for $500. The PHYSICAL difference? A rather expensive piece of paper.

The metal fabrication itself, heavy repairs, even new construction is not all that technically difficult. Yes it requires bigger machines to bend plate than sheet,but that still isn't that big of a problem. There are still hundreds of shops that possess these big machines and COULD do the work - except they can't. The work may be identical, but the burden of proof is on you, not the gubmint, so that CYA thing (paperwork, insurance, certification, etc) runs up the tab.

BTW, from what I understand of aircraft restoration, it is often the equivanent of putting a vintage builders plate on an entirely brand new loco and calling it the same engine.

Would it really take that
> much money to reproduce a good baldwin
> traction truck and make it possible for
> about three dozen chicken coops to be back
> on the rails ???

Yes it does take alot of money.

Any "basket case" restoration depends on the availability of suitable (appropriate and usable)parts to use. It the case of a lot of older passenger cars the parts and material are not longer available. Even the newer stuff like Budd girder fluting is nearly impossible to get. So reproduction will play a important role in our future.

The Florence and Cripple Creek suburban coach #65 that we are restoring that was used as a shed for 40+ years will be a new car from the roof down, virtually everything from the roof down that original is wood pulp. One of the major challenges is obtaining appropriate running gear, not to mention and complete set of brass harware for the interior, so we are reproducing a lot of new components. The most significant so far is a Janney rotary lock passenger car coupler. When one figures the man hours, pattern costs, transportation and foundry costs the cost to produce that one set of couplers is staggering. But now the patterns exist and hopefully we will be able to offer reproductions for use in restorations. If I had to budget to do this process for another coupler it would be about $20,000.00 and 8 months before the patterns reach the foundry. (I can hear a whole crowd of people scoffing at me but welcome to reality)

This would not have been possible if we didn't have a TEA 21 grant to restore the car and if we hadn't been able to locate complete trucks for the car since the trucks would have required alot of patterns in themselves in attiontion to the wheels axles and bearings.

So what am I saying? Reproductions are going to be more and more important in the future and we will all have to make the commitment to produce them and we will all have to accept the high cost of doing so. If we had to work with other groups to put the funds together to repoduce the couplers I doubt that it would have ended any different that the Sharon project of several years back. From what I have seen in the past few years of the parts that have been reproduced it has been done by individual groups that can afford the costs.

But it can be done! And although the dollars can be cubic the small stuff is alot cheaper than a new super power steam engine.

Paul D.

Ok, Fire away!



Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

The element that leaves all of us breathing hard after restoration is that it (Street car, steam engine, ship ,airplane) is an old thing that moves.

A house restoration is fun and historic, even if George Washington lived there.

But making it possible for something to move again is flat out mind blowing. The first time it runs after many years or even decades taks my breath away.

Yes many new parts are necessary if it will move safely (especially airplanes) but they are the price you pay for that thrill.

ted_miles@nps.gov

For a needed dose of reality.

A single anything custom built is very expensive. the second one is damnably expensive, and subsequent generations from the same patterns and dies decline each into the realm of simply expensive.

Several years ago, Colorado Railroad Museum invested in patterns and tooling to replicate passenger car trucks. I haven't asked recently, but was told a few years back that they wouldn't share them even with some compensation nor would they produce and sell parts from them for fear of potential liability if something happened down the line to a car built using their parts.

I'd love to hear that this situation has changed, and wouldn't it be wonderful if many of us who need the same unobtainable things could band together and contribute to the common good?

Paul, are you offering couplers?

Dave

BC&G #14 in Gaithersburg, MD is about as much of a backet case as you can get. The tender is rusted away and was knocked off the frame in a derailment. The firebox is rusted out, ledgend has it the firebox was paper thin in the 1960's when she last ran. She has been stripped of about everything. The folks in Gaithersburg have done a pretty good job keeping the old girl presentable though.

Tom

> Would it really take that
> much money to reproduce a good baldwin
> traction truck and make it possible for
> about three dozen chicken coops to be back
> on the rails ???

A good 7' wheel base Baldwin MCB interurban truck would definitely be in high demand, and I bet that you could build one using heavy bar stock, new springs, and castings stripped from 6'6" wheel base CTA trucks (which are fairly plentiful). This isn't to say that one of these trucks would be cheap - I think that 10-20K apiece would be hopeful - but it would be possible to do. I think there may be even more of a market for a Brill single truck, though, perhaps a 21 or a 79.

The North American leaders in streetcar truck fabrication are the folks at the Edmonton Radial Railway in Edmonton, Alberta. They've fabricated from plans several sets of trucks for bodies they've acquired, and from what I've heard (I've never been there myself) the people there are getting pretty good at it. I know they've fabricated St. Louis 47 trucks, which are pretty complicated (not just bar stock there), and I think they've done others.

Frank Hicks

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com