I took a walk through Lynchburg's Riverside Park this morning--no change of any kind to the condition of 2-8-4 2760. She is still sitting there uncovered, fenced off behind chain link, along with a fast-rotting Southern heavyweight day coach and a small arch-bar truck wood caboose (ex-Virginian?). She's no better or worse than any time I've seen her over the last 4 years, except of course for whatever 4 more years of rust and water can do.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Erik, is the engine's location so bad as to make any possible relocation a logistic nightmare, as is commonly reported?

Local preservation group(s) seem to be concentrating their efforts on one of the city's extant depots, while this locomotive continues to be ignored. Has anyone queried the city govt. itself to see if any effort at arresting the deterioration could be mounted?

hi_plain@yahoo.com

> Erik, is the engine's location so bad as to
> make any possible relocation a logistic
> nightmare, as is commonly reported?

The locomotive and cars are located on a grade that comes up off the SR main line from the area of the James River Viaduct. The grade itself is basically a cut in the adjacent hillsides, and the area is surrounded by smaller hills, with narrow and twisting roads in the park itself. Though not as difficult to access as, say, the 1361 at the Horse Shoe Curve was, it's probably the safest statement to say that it went in by rail, and it's going out by rail if it leaves in one piece and not ten thousand. Therefore, the cooperation (or lack thereof) of track owner Norfolk Southern will have to be factored in.

lner4472@bcpl.net

The locomotive is situated behind the remains of a shallow swimming pool and a steep hillside with vegetation climbing upwards to some buildings. The park slopes upward at about 30 degrees on the river side. From my examination of the sight, the big engine went straight into the park through an access directly behind the display track. The caboose and the Southern coach must be removed before the Kanawha can be touched, and the coach is going out in dumptrucks, believe me! The caboose may be salvagable.
The location of the Kanawha is really important to the situation as she sits under trees, against a hillside, at the edge of a slope, in what is essential a drainage area. The amount of water under and around the loco is what is keeping her in such despicable condition, although vandalism has been murderous as well. The engine is basically out of sight as well. She cannot be seen from the street, she is beneath the surrounding ground-level, and you really have to hunt for her in the park in order to find the engine. All that said, I don't believe the locomotive is beyond salvage, preservation, and possibly restoration. If she is nothing more than a source of spare parts to run one of the others, say Richmond's or Newport New's Kanawhas, then she derserves relocation and attention. She must be pulled out of the park at minimum.


glueck@maine.edu

It is indeed a VGN class C-1 caboose.
The number escapes me, as does my slide....

Russell Underwood

NFDRwy@Cox.net

> It is indeed a VGN class C-1 caboose.
> The number escapes me, as does my slide....

The caboose is in very bad shape, but is a real gem--a very small, arch-bar equipped wooden two-trucker. I'd love to see someone get her out of there and rebuild her, even if it amounted to jacking up the ironwork and building a new wooden caboose underneith. She'd look wonderful behind a string of vintage freight cars like Strasburg's.

As for getting her out--well, others have described the physical configuration of the site pretty well. The caboose is small enough to get out using a crane with some reach, if someone were willing to pay for the crane and the riggers to save such a sad sack.

Its hard to see the SR coach or the 2-8-4 coming out any other way than they came in--via panel track down to the old SR main--though with cubic dollars supplied, creative riggers would find a way, perhaps using multiple lifts crabbing up the hillside or some such. Anyhow, it's not your usual park rescue site for sure--no big level grassy lawn with room to maneuver.

As for the prospects of getting the City of Lynchburg involved, I'd almost recommend against calling their attention to it at all--the city has an extremely tax-averse populous that is constantly on the lookout for waste and abuse, and I fear any money spent restoring that 2-8-4 would meet their definition of governmental waste. Not endorsing the point of view in any way shape or form, just telling you what I observe in my visits there. Calling her too forcefully to folks' attention would, I expect, most like result in her scrapping and removal as the cheapest method of removing the problem.


eledbetter@rypn.org

I'm probably going to get blasphemous here, but here we go:

1.) 2-8-4- Let's stop mincing words. She's done,

and has been for some time. I really don't

know what if anything is of value on her, but

it can't be much. Honestly, what's wrong with

making an offer for dissassembly? Bring in

the experts who know what would be worth

salvaging, get it off and out, and then call

the local scrapper. We might start by talking

to groups with Lima Berks like PM 1225, NKP

765, NKP 759 (Steamtown), the Washington

Court House, Ohio 2700, #2700 in Dennison,

Ohio, etc. Surely there are pieces that may

only be good for display locos, but at least

SOME benefit would come of this.
2.) If the Virginian cabin can be saved, then

dismantle it to the carfloor, and move it out

via crane (I believe it was noted it could be

done with long boom version)
3.) Southern Coach (see #1).

Is this really that much of a stretch? Its HAS to be better than just letting them go back to mother nature slowly and painfully. Like a race horse with a broken leg, the entire set deserves a quicker death, don't you think?

TJG

> The caboose is in very bad shape, but is a
> real gem--a very small, arch-bar equipped
> wooden two-trucker. I'd love to see someone
> get her out of there and rebuild her, even
> if it amounted to jacking up the ironwork
> and building a new wooden caboose
> underneith. She'd look wonderful behind a
> string of vintage freight cars like
> Strasburg's.

> As for getting her out--well, others have
> described the physical configuration of the
> site pretty well. The caboose is small
> enough to get out using a crane with some
> reach, if someone were willing to pay for
> the crane and the riggers to save such a sad
> sack.

> Its hard to see the SR coach or the 2-8-4
> coming out any other way than they came
> in--via panel track down to the old SR
> main--though with cubic dollars supplied,
> creative riggers would find a way, perhaps
> using multiple lifts crabbing up the
> hillside or some such. Anyhow, it's not your
> usual park rescue site for sure--no big
> level grassy lawn with room to maneuver.

> As for the prospects of getting the City of
> Lynchburg involved, I'd almost recommend
> against calling their attention to it at
> all--the city has an extremely tax-averse
> populous that is constantly on the lookout
> for waste and abuse, and I fear any money
> spent restoring that 2-8-4 would meet their
> definition of governmental waste. Not
> endorsing the point of view in any way shape
> or form, just telling you what I observe in
> my visits there. Calling her too forcefully
> to folks' attention would, I expect, most
> like result in her scrapping and removal as
> the cheapest method of removing the problem.


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

[SARCASM ALERT ACTIVATED--CODE RED..........]

Following up on both Brother Gaffney's thoughts and Poo-Bah Ledbetter's recommendations about staying quiet, and knowing the relative isolation of the current location, I propose we draw up a plan and systematically dismantle the loco one piece at a time without telling anyone. Sure, we can sneak out a connecting rod here, a piston there, a driver tire here, a flue there.......... Just wear overalls with extra-big pockets, that's all..........

lner4472@bcpl.net

Yes I remeber, there was a song written about just the sort of plan advocated above. The guy stole parts from the Cadillac plant over 20 years. Darn funny song.

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

The locomotive can be reduced to parts that weigh less than 70,000 lbs. each. A tri axle semi trailer and 4 axle tractor can handle a 70,000 lb. payload. Truck out the tender, boiler and mainframe in three loads. If the mainframe grosses out greater than 70,000 lbs., then leave the trucks and drivers behind for a fourth load. Buy a couple of used 40' containers at $1,500 each for parts like the side rods, appliances, piping etc. Load the containers on site then truck them out as well. This could be done for under 10k with the cooperation of the right riggers and truckers.

Moving the loco by rail would blow through 10k and wouldn't even come close to the cost involved with a rail move.

What this locomotive needs is someone willing to take on the task. We need a person with vision, a leader who is not afraid to put up his own money and time to get the job done. I think finding that person would be more difficult than raising the money or doing the work.

I made a similar decision back in 1996 when I took on the Tod Engine. 250 tons of stationary steam engine in the heart of an active steel mill. I was making $8.00 and hour, had no assets, no tools, and no experience. Just a young 23 year old kid with a dream. Somehow we successfully dismantled the engine, found a place to store it and did it all for under $10,000. Now 7 years later we have our own property, a plan for reassembling the engine and a full complement of tools. Of course I was deep in debt (still am) and had to move from home for three years to take on a better paying job to pay off the debt, but the bottom line is that now the largest cross compound Corliss engine in North America is still with us and not melted down into seamless pipe. Was it worth it? Hell yes!

Who is up to the challenge?

Tod Engine Foundation
jrowlands@neo.rr.com

One piece at a time by Johnny Cash!

bigboy4884@charter.net

> The locomotive can be reduced to parts that
> weigh less than 70,000 lbs. each. A tri axle
> semi trailer and 4 axle tractor can handle a
> 70,000 lb. payload. Truck out the tender,
> boiler and mainframe in three loads. If the
> mainframe grosses out greater than 70,000
> lbs., then leave the trucks and drivers
> behind for a fourth load. Buy a couple of
> used 40' containers at $1,500 each for parts
> like the side rods, appliances, piping etc.
> Load the containers on site then truck them
> out as well. This could be done for under
> 10k with the cooperation of the right
> riggers and truckers.

> Moving the loco by rail would blow through
> 10k and wouldn't even come close to the cost
> involved with a rail move.

> What this locomotive needs is someone
> willing to take on the task. We need a
> person with vision, a leader who is not
> afraid to put up his own money and time to
> get the job done. I think finding that
> person would be more difficult than raising
> the money or doing the work.

> I made a similar decision back in 1996 when
> I took on the Tod Engine. 250 tons of
> stationary steam engine in the heart of an
> active steel mill. I was making $8.00 and
> hour, had no assets, no tools, and no
> experience. Just a young 23 year old kid
> with a dream. Somehow we successfully
> dismantled the engine, found a place to
> store it and did it all for under $10,000.
> Now 7 years later we have our own property,
> a plan for reassembling the engine and a
> full complement of tools. Of course I was
> deep in debt (still am) and had to move from
> home for three years to take on a better
> paying job to pay off the debt, but the
> bottom line is that now the largest cross
> compound Corliss engine in North America is
> still with us and not melted down into
> seamless pipe. Was it worth it? Hell yes!

> Who is up to the challenge?

I like your idea a hell of a lot better than scrapping the engine. If I lived closer to Lynchburg I would have to give it a lot of thought. Now if we can find someone in the Lynchburg area you may be on to something.

John

jhbohon@yahoo.com

In my opinion, no steam locomotive should be scrapped in this day and age. Used as a source of working parts? Yes. Scrapped? Never.

glueck@maine.edu