Can anyone tell me what the normal wiring is for PCC interior lights? In our standard streetcars, we run several bulbs in series, which spreads the 600 VDC out across the bulbs. However, I am uncertain if this was the normal practice in PCC's too or did they run off the low voltage?

Andy Nold
tnold@northtexastransport.org

tnold@northtexastransport.org

PCC lamp circuits use twenty special 32 volt lamps wired in series from the trolley. You will find the same special lamps used in trolley coaches and in other types of electric railway vehicles.

They use special lamp sockets that short when a bulb is removed leaving nineteen lamps connected in series.

The lamps contain a special circuit that shorts the lamp when the filament goes open (burns out) again leaving nineteen lamps in series.

If too many lamps in a string fail, over 32 volts is across each remaining lamp reducing the life of the remaining lamps.

fk



fkrock@pacbell.net

To be pedantic, I should mention that PCC cars also used some regular automotive type lamps for special purposes like stop signs, destination signs, dash illumination, etc. They were powered from the PCC battery circuit.

Interior illumination was provided by the special lamps described above.

fk

fkrock@pacbell.net

That sounds vaguely familiar. I am learning a lot about PCC technology since acquiring four of the Tandy Subway cars and helping McKinney Avenue work on theirs. In fact, tonight I learned where the 30 amp fuse for the MG set is located since, with a sharp crack and the light of God, it blew out. MG set is acting up for some reason (no, not the brushes. That would be too easy).

I would like to cut out the flourescent lights in the Tandy car and put original fixtures back in place. We have several boxes of the original fixtures. Is the 32 volt bulb readily available? What was the name of that light bulb supplier to the street railway and railroad industry - was it Bob Rosenzweig? Anybody have his contact info or webpage?

Andy Nold
tnold@northtexastransport.org

> PCC lamp circuits use twenty special 32 volt
> lamps wired in series from the trolley. You
> will find the same special lamps used in
> trolley coaches and in other types of
> electric railway vehicles.

> They use special lamp sockets that short
> when a bulb is removed leaving nineteen
> lamps connected in series.

> The lamps contain a special circuit that
> shorts the lamp when the filament goes open
> (burns out) again leaving nineteen lamps in
> series.

> If too many lamps in a string fail, over 32
> volts is across each remaining lamp reducing
> the life of the remaining lamps.

> fk


tnold@northtexastransport.org

>Check with Bruce Wells or Justin Skrbin at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum. We have 2 operating PCC cars and 2 more well along in restoration.

artschwartz@sprintmail.com

The PCC cars that the Los Angeles Railway and successors operated used 5 120-volt blubs in serries. When we lose a blub we lose 5 blubs; there are several groups in parallel through one switch. Like the other streetcars these are 56 watt blubs.

How, the PE Hollywood cars and the PE "blimps" use the twently 32-volt lamps with special shorting filaments.

Brian Norden
Orange Empire Ry Museum

> PCC lamp circuits use twenty special 32 volt
> lamps wired in series from the trolley. You
> will find the same special lamps used in
> trolley coaches and in other types of
> electric railway vehicles.

> They use special lamp sockets that short
> when a bulb is removed leaving nineteen
> lamps connected in series.

> The lamps contain a special circuit that
> shorts the lamp when the filament goes open
> (burns out) again leaving nineteen lamps in
> series.

> If too many lamps in a string fail, over 32
> volts is across each remaining lamp reducing
> the life of the remaining lamps.

> fk


bnorden49@earthlink.net

> PCC lamp circuits use twenty special 32 volt
> lamps wired in series from the trolley. You
> will find the same special lamps used in
> trolley coaches and in other types of
> electric railway vehicles.

> They use special lamp sockets that short
> when a bulb is removed leaving nineteen
> lamps connected in series.

> The lamps contain a special circuit that
> shorts the lamp when the filament goes open
> (burns out) again leaving nineteen lamps in
> series.

> If too many lamps in a string fail, over 32
> volts is across each remaining lamp reducing
> the life of the remaining lamps.

Actually, the lamps are rated as "30 volt 1.6 amp", and there are 18-22 of these in a series, depending on the circuit and what the operating property specified. The filament leads have a device which shorts them toghether when the filament burns out. The sockets for these bulbs are special in having a center contact which shorts to the collar when you remove the bulb.

If more than two of these burn out in a series, the rest will go in short order, almost a chain reaction.

Some properties (Kansas City for example) bought their PCCs with 5 lamp circuits.

GE is the last known manufacturer of these, and the ordering code is 1.6A/A21 30V. Your local GE jobber *might* be able to find some under this designation, although Seashore is rumored to have cornered the market about 12 years ago.

If you have to use a substitue, be sure to use lamps with a C-9 filament, and disable the shorting contacts in the sockets.

The heritage F Line of the San Francisco Municipal Railway is running a fleet of over a dozen PCCs. They do use lightbulb fixtures not flouresent tubes.

You might cotact someone there and get too the shops.

ted_miles@nps.gov

I've got more 32 volt light bulbs than I will ever use. I bought a large quantity of new-old stock years ago. They actually say Railway Car Lighting bulbs on the box if I remember correctly, and I think they are Sylvanias. I use them on several ex UP, ATSF & Q passenger cars I own that have 32V DC elec systems. I don't know if they are appropriate for PCC's, but if so I would be willing to sell some.

domeliner@hotmail.com

Hi,

Regarding the lighting cicuits in the PCC cars. There have been many ways in which these were done. If Tandy has any as built drawings you'd be best to look at them or contact the Washington (DC) area museum and see what they might have available for info.

I say this as I've seen PCC cars that use 120 volt/56 watt bulbs, 30 volt/1.6 amp shorting bulbs and 120 volt / 50 watt rough service bulbs in them.

With the 30 volt 1.6 amp, I've seen PCC cars that had the circuit zig zag down the car's interior left to right and back again. On most they went straight down on side or the other.
Usually they were 23 each or so in a string.

If you came across a car that has the 56 watt bulbs in it and didn't know it, surprise, suprise !

The St. Louis Public Service cars, for instance, they had bulbs located in the door engine compartments, and one up under the dash (and you cannot see it, you have to "feel" for this one), and as I re-call, the last one on the drivers side string, was actually the last one on the right hand side in the back of the car (if that makes sense ?) .

Other's yet, had a dropping resister in them.

These were all built (unless they've been modified) with the 600 volts right at the gang switches. These were the cab heater, right and left hand bank of lamps. I might be wrong, but that's been my experiance .

The 120 volt / 30 volt 1.6 amp bulbs are still available. The NAED number off the top of my head is 21159 (as I recall), and they were in the neighborhood of $3.00 to $4.00 each.

FYI -- was it the Motor side fuse that went (600 volt - 30 amp fuse)? Not either the control fuse or the Generator out put fuse ? Usually if the 30 amp/600 volt fuse goes, you've got real problems. On the other hand, we change out ALL the fuses once a year as a routine maintenance. So, maybe it's just an old fuse, but if it caught your attention when it went, well, that's usually not good !.

One question, why aren't you using those two re habbed TTC cars you have on hand ? Wouldn't that be more attractive on the Streets?

Good luck
Karl Johnson



pacifica@rcn.com

Quote from Joe Clark:
> I've got more 32 volt light bulbs than I
> will ever use. They actually say
> Railway Car Lighting bulbs on the box

Those probably are what the box says, for Railroad
passenger, etc. cars that have 32 volt systems.
They are a rough service version of the 32 volt
household bulbs that rural people without electric
companies use with their 32 volt generators.
They are not "Street Railway" bulbs, designed to
be run in series from a nominally 600 volt D.C.
supply. P.C.C. bulbs, designed to short circut
when they burn out, are labeled 30 volt. I've
seen them marked 1.amp. 1.6 amp. and 2.5 amp.,
corresponding to 30, 48, and 75 watts.
Tod Prowell of R.T.Y. has done a lot of research
on the subject.


TyburnRR@cs.com