..... begins with a closeup of the LaFrance fire engine being wheeled out of the building (hey, James Hefner, it's not too late to ask now!), and details very closely the damage to the wooden cars.

Supposedly a Strasburg crew, including Linn Moedinger, was to examine the wooden cars for evaluation on Thursday, but Thursday was a rainy day. No real information has been forthcoming from the Museum; however, in a lecture and PowerPoint show to the Baltimore Architectural Foundation on Wednesday, Courtney Wilson noted that enough of the surviving roof truss members suffered damage that the entire lower roof will have to be replaced and rebuilt, with new material replacing iron. In addition, the rebuilding of the roof will allow the opportunity to redesign the roof to streamline the appearance (hiding sprinkler lines, power lines, etc.).

Photo Tour 3-21-2003

lner4472@bcpl.net

> Supposedly a Strasburg crew, including Linn
> Moedinger, was to examine the wooden cars
> for evaluation on Thursday,

I suppose if anyone could put those coaches back together it would be Linn's crew at Strasburg.

*thumbs up*

"Repairing" the car in the above image would be a complete waste of resources. The result would only be a replica -- and a second generation replica at that. Sad.

johncb@u.washington.edu

> "Repairing" the car in the above
> image would be a complete waste of
> resources. The result would only be a
> replica -- and a second generation replica
> at that. Sad.

Would it be a "complete waste of resources" if they effectively came out with a Strasburg-style car at the end--something incorporating as much of the original fabric and styling as possible, but creating a car that, for example, could be sent to, say, Cumberland or Spencer for a movie project, or actually show up at some 200th anniversary party for American railroading without being handled with white gloves the whole way?

Yes, there's no way to pass off the results of the "restoration" as an original car. But the wreckage provides restoration parts for the still-unrestored 21 in the shop. As well, I don't hear anyone complaining about Strasburg's otherwise-excellent "restoration" work (involving much new wood) on Ma & Pa coach 20, or the freight cars (which, by the way, rates as a pure labor of love--anyone see a way to earn that money back?).

lner4472@bcpl.net

Its true that much of what was lost can't be put back together. What can be done is to pick up every piece of reasonably intact historic fabric, log it in and at the end decide how to proceed. I'm supposing they have full documentation of the lost cars. So they can either; Rebuild the original with as much historic fabric as possible. Use the original materials to help in restoring a similar car as suggested below. Fabricate a totally new replica based on documentation. Or, scrape it all into a dumpster and put up photos of what used to be. All but the last option meet the purpose of a museum displaying such an artifact to the general public; to provide the look and feel of walking into a railroad car from this era. Heck , half of whats in the Air and Space Museum in D.C is not quite "original fabric", but the tourists don't seem to mind. And after all, tourists, not railfans pay most of the bills.

I think we all have to remember that Rail equipment is "consumable", that meaning there are so very few pieces that actually survived thier entire career with every piece of boiler tube, jacket, wood, wheels, etc. until and after retirement. I'm sure the wood cars, some if I understand correctly were modified by the B&O for 1927, have had much of thier exteriors already replaced, and possibly other pieces.

Smokebox

"orhf dot org"

> I think we all have to remember that Rail
> equipment is "consumable", that
> meaning there are so very few pieces that
> actually survived thier entire career with
> every piece of boiler tube, jacket, wood,
> wheels, etc. until and after retirement. I'm
> sure the wood cars, some if I understand
> correctly were modified by the B&O for
> 1927, have had much of thier exteriors
> already replaced, and possibly other pieces.

> Smokebox

I second that emotion. On a locomotive on which I have been working for five years now, not much of the original machine other than the frame and perhaps one course of the boiler is the "original fabric." Cylinders, drivers, engine truck and trailing truck all bear casting dates considerably newer than the locomotive's manufacture date on its builder's plate, and the front tube sheet and firebox wrapper sheets also bear much newer date stampings. It's a myth that any locomotive more than 8-10 years old is 100 percent original, and that includes diesels.

K4s1361@hotmail.com

I once watched what was essentially a PRR promotional movie, and in the movie they have some footage of their carpenters replacing all the wood in a 40' outside braced boxcar. Is it still the same car? Sure, from a certain point of view. I want to say that almost every cell in the Human Body is replaced every three to five years or so. (It's been a while, and I know of conflicting information on some specific kinds of tissue, but lets say most are regenerated periodically.) Does this mean that I'm a replica and not the original? Doing routine maintanance on something, (i.e. replacing worn out fabric,) does not necessarily alter the essential nature of that thing. If it does, I might as well change my name, because I'm not the same person whom my birth certificate describes. (Unless of course I'm actually a foot long or so, crtyogenically preserved in a tank, and if that's the case, how am I posting? Hmm.)

Sincerely,
the original, no replica I,
David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com

Just resort to one of the three "Rs" when you display it:
1. Restoration ...original fabric cleaned up
2. Reconstruction ... rebuilt with new or replacement parts.
3. Replica ... all new

no biggie, I'll ride behind or in any of them!


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> ..... begins with a closeup of the LaFrance
> fire engine being wheeled out of the
> building (hey, James Hefner, it's not too
> late to ask now!), and details very closely
> the damage to the wooden cars.

She sure looks alot better now than she did under the rubble, doesn't she? Definitely repairable.

In reading through the list of equipment, they mention that this steam fire engine was actually owned by the B&O. It is the only known railroad steam fire engine remaining in the USA.

On a similiar note; I found out on a Ahrens-Fox website that the Norfolk and Western bought a brand new 1907 Ahrens-Fox steam fire engine, and gave it to the city of Roanoke. It became their Engine #2, and upon retirement it went to "a private zoo in Roanoke".

That would appear to be the Mill Mountain Zoo on the Parkway Spur Rd. on Mill Mountain. If any of you who live in the area happen to visit the zoo, you might want to see if you can spot it. If you do, it is yet another reminder of the impact the railroads once had on the local community.

The Great Western Railway museum in Swindon, UK has a Merryweather & Sons steam engine that was owned by the GWR. It was built c.1901.

Besides their obvious role as fire engines in their day, these horse drawn engines were also usefull as portable steam pumps; and some companies bought them just for that purpose. The builders in the UK had one design that was small enough to be on two wheels, and could be moved around by an individual.

Finally, we went vacationing in the San Antonio area a couple of weekends ago, and along the way I photographed three steam fire engines. That was one less than the number of steam locomotives I saw; I have seen a figure of 400 of these remaining around the country.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Vehicles
james1@pernet.net

James,

If you are going to start a list, the Long Island,New York village of Roslyn,New York has a steam pumper. In my childhood they used to roll it out in the parades.

I bet that there is a web site for fire museums and artifacts in them. They have also preserved a lot of trucks...

Ted

ted_miles@nps.gov