I make no bones about the fact that I am a steam fan. Therefore i need some education.

I understand that B units were used early in passenger service. And that they are a lot rarer than the A units.

If say a Great Northern B unit was converted to a steam generator car; could it be reatored at lest cosmetically to its earlier self?

Would anyone want one of these?

ted_miles@nps.gov

> I make no bones about the fact that I am a
> steam fan. Therefore i need some education.

> I understand that B units were used early in
> passenger service. And that they are a lot
> rarer than the A units.

> If say a Great Northern B unit was converted
> to a steam generator car; could it be
> reatored at lest cosmetically to its earlier
> self?

> Would anyone want one of these?

Ted,
I believe that the E9B that the UP is currently operating had been rebuilt from a B unit that was, in fact, modified to be a steam generator car. It was reincarnated as a power unit by UP.
Don C.



milw261@sbcglobal.net

B-units were used in the early days for a number of reasons, including the continuity of the streamlined passenger trains.

It should not be a problem to take a B-unit that was converted to something else and convert it back to a B-unit. Just time and money.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I may be wrong but here's my go at it.

Early on the B (booster) units were permanitly coupled to an A unit to simplify controls and to circumvent union rules. I've seen some early pictures of A-B-B-A FT's where the gap between the boosters is wider than the outer gaps. This didn't last too long because the unions were appeased and the RR's felt they were loosing money with 2 units out of service when only one was unservicable. The A and B units allowed EMD flexibility of how much HP a RR needed in a set by just adding additional B units until the resired HP was met. Another benifit of the boosters was that the firemen could safely walk the entire set of engins to keep them running which was a necicity in the early days.

And they were used to maintain the continuity of passenger trains. Look at the early versions of the NOrthern Pacific's Mainstreeter with an A-B-B set of F-3's on the point and a paint scheme that started with the Pine tree on the nose and continued unbroken to the observation car. Sexy but it didn't last because of hassel of a une ended locomotive.

The UP B unit started out as a diesel and was converted to a steam generator car by Amtrak (i think) and COnverted back to a locomotive by the UP with one 16 cyl block rather than 2 12 cyl blocks.

pfdx@aol.com

RDG's FT's (1945) came as A-B sets with drawbars between the A and B units. They remained that way their whole careers. They were numbered 250A and 250B etc. RDG's F-3's and FA-1's (1948) and F-7's (1950) came as A-B sets with couplers on everything. They were numbered 300A, 300B etc.

Some roads, e.g. Santa Fe, used the same number on all 4 units of a set. e.g. 301L-301A-301B-301C. Yes, 301A was a B-unit.

The number game was the result of a fear the engineers union would declare each unit an individual locomotive, each requiring an individual engineer. It the units all had the same number and only one cab facing in the direction of movement, the consist was clearly one locomotive.

Also, B-units were cheaper to buy than A-units and the early A-units did not have nose MU.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

In addition to my post this morning; I have now found that the item was Great Northern 430C a model F3B Diesel locomotive built by the Electro-motive Corp in 1947.

It was rebuilt into a steam generator car in 1963 and was later given the number 662 by AMTRAK.

After so much outdoor storage it is only in fair condition. But needs a home.

If people can drag the last two PA units all the way back from Mexico; a California location should be easy.

ted_miles@nps.gov

> I make no bones about the fact that I am a
> steam fan. Therefore i need some education.

> I understand that B units were used early in
> passenger service. And that they are a lot
> rarer than the A units.

> If say a Great Northern B unit was converted
> to a steam generator car; could it be
> reatored at lest cosmetically to its earlier
> self?

> Would anyone want one of these?
Ted- You might want to contact Doyle McCormick at the Brooklyn Roundhouse(Portland, OR). He has an operable GN F7A and may be interested in an original GN B unit if the price/condition were right. On the other hand, he is heavily involved in restoring the NKP PA, and may just have his hands full. (Several of his crew from 4449 operations post on this board and likely passed the word.) Good luck trying to save it. JB

jjburke0918@aol.com

> I make no bones about the fact that I am a
> steam fan. Therefore i need some education.

> I understand that B units were used early in
> passenger service. And that they are a lot
> rarer than the A units.

> If say a Great Northern B unit was converted
> to a steam generator car; could it be
> reatored at lest cosmetically to its earlier
> self?

> Would anyone want one of these?

Well, once upon a time, when there was a diesel and passenger group at the Junction, we looked at doing just that. As I recall we determined it would not be impossible to return it to being an F3B, just costly. However, we always thought that as a steam generator car, it had merit for preservation as well. Painted in the GN's full Omaha orange and Pullman green with appropriate striping, it was quite acceptable. Somewhere I have a photo of the unit in question in service in just those colors. Last time I was inside, it had the steam generator in the middle with the raised roof section and then an air compressor on each end of the carbody. The fuel tank had been split into sections for both fuel and water. Sadly most of the electrical was torn out by theives long before it ever came to us.

Moving it will be fun as I imagine it can't go by rail anywhere, even if the line to Cannon was open. Best of luck finding someone to take it. It's a neat piece.

rogerc38@aol.com