Heard an item on NPR today re: the collapse of the Cuban sugar industry and the dismantling/scrapping of some mills. Cuban steam won't survive this. Is anyone getting in ahead of the scrappers? Since the embargo won't outlast the 70 plus year old Fidel wouldn't it make sense to get the equipment and hold it in Cuba or Mexico(?) pending better relations?

wrj494@aol.com

Fortunately Britain has been doing a bangup tourist business with Cuba while we have been scared away by Jesse Helms et al. They are also so far ahead of us in industrial preservation that preserving Cuban sugar mills and railways as heritage tourism would be much easier for them than us. Hopefully, they are already working on it with like minded Cubans.

I don't see us being real players in it right now. The Philippine / American steam in 3 foot gage offered for sale a couple weeks ago is still languishing looking for a buyer, and it is in a common narrow gage from our POV.

dave



irondave@bellsouth.net

Furthermore, while stationary steam in the mills themselves is being rapidly scrapped, the steam locomotives are mostly being held onto. A new steam railroad museum is being established in Cuba, and several of the more notable steam locomotives on the island are being earmarked for this museum.

Others (some not reported in years) are being dragged out of sheds and mounted on plinthes, while others are being transferred to the mills that will serve as working museums.

Some will probably be lost, but the main losses appear to the steam engines, "steam lizards" and other equipment in the mills themselves.

I have combed the latest reports and updated Cuba in the May release of "Surviving World Steam Locomotives"; one of my contacts is reviewing the list and contributing photographs he took for the November update.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Fortunately Britain has been doing a bangup
> tourist business with Cuba while we have
> been scared away by Jesse Helms et al. They
> are also so far ahead of us in industrial
> preservation that preserving Cuban sugar
> mills and railways as heritage tourism would
> be much easier for them than us. Hopefully,
> they are already working on it with like
> minded Cubans.

> I don't see us being real players in it
> right now. The Philippine / American steam
> in 3 foot gage offered for sale a couple
> weeks ago is still languishing looking for a
> buyer, and it is in a common narrow gage
> from our POV.

> dave


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

A friend and I have been talking about going to Cuba. Does anyone what is involved? I understand you need to fly in from another country.

What does the US Gov have to say about travel to Cuba. What kind of restrictions are there?

Thanks!

Alan Levy

alanl759@aol.com

> I understand you need to fly in from another
> country.

NEGATIVE!!!! I remember hearing a discussion a few years ago about an organization that had a special exemption from the Federal government that was conducting a trip.

I don't know the specifics but I know simply si9detracking to a 3rd country prior to entry is not valid unless you like the sound of "Alan Levy, c/o XXXX Federal Penitentiary"

> Alan Levy


superheater@rrmail.com

> I understand you need to fly in from another
> country.

NEGATIVE!!!! I remember hearing a discussion a few years ago about an organization that had a special exemption from the Federal government that was conducting a trip.

I don't know the specifics but I know simply si9detracking to a 3rd country prior to entry is not valid unless you like the sound of "Alan Levy, c/o XXXX Federal Penitentiary"



superheater@rrmail.com

Its kind of ridiculous, but any US citizen visiting Cuba (even from another country) is subject to charges and fines unless you are among the few people exempt for visiting family there or a few other reasons. It's silly that the state department doesn't grant more exemptions. I think any logical person knows that a railfan going to see steam engines at a sugar mill is not there to support Castro, but what can anyone do about politics? Clearly people still go there, but there is no strictly legal way for most US citizens to visit.
> A friend and I have been talking about going
> to Cuba. Does anyone what is involved? I
> understand you need to fly in from another
> country.

> What does the US Gov have to say about
> travel to Cuba. What kind of restrictions
> are there?

> Thanks!

> Alan Levy

> What does the US Gov have to say about
> travel to Cuba. What kind of restrictions
> are there?

Enough to make you think Cuba is hosting al-Quaeda and Adolf Hitler. In the not-too-distant past, there were ways for either registered tour groups to go or for Americans to go via Bermuda or other countries. However, recently US officials slammed shut a couple of the loopholes.

The answer at the moment is to either find someone to shoot Papa Castro (just being facetious, folks) or maintain as much contact and "surveillance" as possible through our British and Canadian friends. The Industrial Railway Society of Great Britain has been especially meticulous in documenting the status and survival of remaining Cuban steam. Meanwhile, as I remind one and all, WHEN the wall falls, it will fall OVERNIGHT without warning, and the window for railroad preservationists to acquire and repatriate any steamers will last mere days or weeks, not months or years. If you have designs of acquiring a potential 24", 36", or standard-gauge steamer, start your fundraising and planning NOW!!!!!

Travel restrictions to Cuba are administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the US Treasury Department. You can find them at

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcemen ... -cuba.html

Recently several US groups including Trains Unlimited Tours had licenses from the OFAC to conduct educational tours for US citizens, but as of March 2003 that loophole was slammed nearly shut again. Educational visits are now allowed only in connection with a specific course at an accredited institution of higher education (College of Ferroequinology does not count).

eledbetter@rypn.org

This is what I found out today. First off there are regular flights from Canada. You need not go to a third world country. The catch is you need to get permission from the US to go and return.
So if you are a railfan with family business there you can go. If you are an author, that has published in the past and are going for research you have a chance. If you want to go and stay, no problem, except papers and finding work in Cuba. Don't know if the railroads are hiring...

Reading a couple British railroad mags it seems that there are or were regular tours.

Cuba seems like a great adventure, but the biggest adventure maybe the red (no pun intended) tape.....

-Alan Levy

alanl759@aol.com

Until 9/11, many Americans visited Cuba by simply ignoring the law and traveling via Mexico or Canada. Enforcement by the Treasury Department was somewhat lax. Since 9/11, Canadian Immigration shares passenger manifests with US Immigration, so if you fly in via Canada, Uncle Sam will know it. An acquaintance made this unpleasant discovery last year.

As both Sandy and Erik have pointed out, the "Cultural Exchange" loophole that Trains Unlimited was able to operate under has been closed since their recent trip. If you plan on going as an author or journalist, you must be full time employed in the field and able to prove it.

Finally, only a half dozen mills were working with steam this year and a couple of them closed to steam during the season. It is likely that there will be no working steam for the next year's sugar cane harvest, other than with pre-arranged charters. Unfortunately, if you are not Canadian or European, don't plan on being there.

Fortunately, the Cuban's themselves seem to be planning on preserving many of their engines, although some scrapping has occurred recently. Castro can't live forever and it may be possible to enjoy preserved Cuban steam in the not too distant future.

If you want to find out more about Cuban steam, visit Rob Dickinson's fascinating web site at http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/

Some years ago, I saw a photo of a BLW 4-6-0 in Cuba that was the spitting image of Maryland & Pennsylvania No. 27, before it got piston valves and outside valve gear. I believe there was another just like at that mill also, which was said to be near Havana. Does anyone know if either still exists?

Also, as many shortline Baldwins in the U.S. were the same as export stock models, I wonder if there any 2-6-0s that are close to No. 5 of the Stewartstown RR in Pa.?

ryarger@rypn.org

Bob,

It would take a bit of work, but the place to start is the book "Industrial Steam Locomotives of Cuba" by G.A.P.Leach. Published by the Industrial Railway Society of England. This book lists every known engine in Cuba by builders number. You could then select all the 4-6-0's amd 2-6-0's and start to research their builders numbers. The Baldwin class books are in the DeGolyer Library, but there are a number of individuals who have copies as well. By cross referencing the builders number to the class, you can find if there are any engines that match either the 27 or the 5.

Also, maybe Wayne Weiss will see your post and give you the information. He's the number one expert on Cuban steam in the US.

> It would take a bit of work, but the place
> to start is the book "Industrial Steam
> Locomotives of Cuba" by G.A.P.Leach.
> Published by the Industrial Railway Society
> of England.

Another excellent source is Rob Dickinson's CD-ROM, Zafra--Vintage Steam at Work in Cuba.
It contains >1,500 images and 50 maps. While not for Macs, if you have a PC, it's quite useful. The photos are excellent and come with captions!
The locos are in numerical order.
Contact Rob or Images of Rail, 15 Moss Close, East Bridgford, Nottingham, UK NG13 8LG.

Hank Morris

http://www.azohwy.com/y/ymavlyrr.htm
hankmorris@earthlink.net

> Bob,

> It would take a bit of work, but the place
> to start is the book "Industrial Steam
> Locomotives of Cuba" by G.A.P.Leach.
> Published by the Industrial Railway Society
> of England. This book lists every known
> engine in Cuba by builders number. You could
> then select all the 4-6-0's amd 2-6-0's and
> start to research their builders numbers.

I have a recent copy of this book and lots of photos of Ma & Pa 27/Stewartstown 5, plus appropriate data. Give me time and I'll see if I can find a match.

Of course, apply enough ingenuity and you can "recreate" almost all of "Mixed Train Daily" and half the small early 1900s steamers of ANY gauge with what's in Cuba now. The question is, can an outfit like, say, Friends of the EBT or the WW&F muster the initial resources to repatriate an appropriate foundation to rebuild an EBT 2-6-0 or a Maine two-foot 2-8-0 or o-4-4T, AND do so with no warning as Castro drops dead on his cigar?