Wes Barris' steamlocomotive.com website lists four 2-4-2T 30" gauge locomotives constructed by Walt Disney Industries for the "Fort Wilderness Railroad" as being stored at Disney World. Were these actually steam locomotives? Or just "steam outline".

Any information about these four would be greatly appreciated.


Steam Locomotive Information
dougb@sunserver.com

They were actually steam locomotives, constructed by Disney Imagineering in 1970. They are indeed 2-4-2T locomotives with a guage of 30".

With the failure of the Fort Wilderness RR, they were stored by Walt Disney for several years, and became derelict. They were recently sold, and are at the following locations. They were sold under the condition that they NOT be restored to steam:

1 private, unknown location, OR, USA
2 warehouse (private), Camarillo, CA, USA
3 warehouse (private), Camarillo, CA, USA
4 warehouse (private), Camarillo, CA, USA

I believe there are pictures of them in the Photo Section of the parktrains group on Yahoo.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Wes Barris' steamlocomotive.com website
> lists four 2-4-2T 30" gauge locomotives
> constructed by Walt Disney Industries for
> the "Fort Wilderness Railroad" as
> being stored at Disney World. Were these
> actually steam locomotives? Or just
> "steam outline".

> Any information about these four would be
> greatly appreciated.


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

> They were actually steam locomotives,
> constructed by Disney Imagineering in 1970.
> They are indeed 2-4-2T locomotives with a
> guage of 30".

> With the failure of the Fort Wilderness RR,
> they were stored by Walt Disney for several
> years, and became derelict. They were
> recently sold, and are at the following
> locations. They were sold under the
> condition that they NOT be restored to
> steam:

So if I read this correctly, they don't want them restored to steam, because as the builder if something catastrophic happened to them Walt Disney corporation could be held liable.. correct?

> So if I read this correctly, they don't want
> them restored to steam, because as the
> builder if something catastrophic happened
> to them Walt Disney corporation could be
> held liable.. correct?

It's the Walt Disney empire. Insert your favorite from a wide range of available "conspiracy theories" about the "Evil Disney Empire". The impression I would get from reading up on the Disney railroad enterprises is that, as operable locomotives, they would somehow call attention to a "bad decision" by Disney and thus make the corporation look less than 100% perfect and successful. (Bluntly put, the "Fort Wilderness Railroad" was a half-baked idea that was beset by a combination of bad engineering/logistics and high labor costs--in effect, they were attempting to use live-steam trains, to be run by semi-skilled employees, as a people-mover on too-narrow tracks.)

lner4472@bcpl.net

Ok, I'm sure I'm just forgeting, but could someone refresh my over-tired mind on what the FT. Wilderness RR was supposed to be?

Thanks!

Alan Levy

alanl759@aol.com

Alan,
I was not there, so I may have this wrong, but I understand it was a cross between a traditional dude ranch and a high end trailer park. The railroad was used to move people from the parking area where their equipment was housed to the rest of the operation.

A post card I have shows a train passing a group of riders on small horses or ponies. disney would try things but after a while not throw good money after bad...

ted_miles@nps.gov

Michael Broggie's book "Walt Disney's Railroad Story" has a chapter on the Fort Wilderness RR. There's photos, locomotive specs. It also accounts for some of the problems the RR had.
Hope this helps.


kmuldowney@att.net

I had the opertunity to inspect one of the engines about 2 years ago. It was over and under engineered at the same time. There was no water glass but there was a low water alarm. Nearly half of the fuel space in the tender tank was taken up by the public address system. The already small saddle water tank had a cut out for the air compressor. It is a cute but impractical machine for what they needed.
Tom

ironbartom@aol.com

Check out www.FortWildernessRR.com for the backround on the trains

> I had the opertunity to inspect one of the
> engines about 2 years ago. It was over and
> under engineered at the same time. There was
> no water glass but there was a low water
> alarm. Nearly half of the fuel space in the
> tender tank was taken up by the public
> address system. The already small saddle
> water tank had a cut out for the air
> compressor. It is a cute but impractical
> machine for what they needed.
> Tom


Go to Fort Wilderness R.R.
David.Rose@FortWildernessRR.com

I'm the proud owner of FWRR engine #4. (It was my engine that Tom inspected about two years ago.) It and coach #401 now reside at my home in Livermore. I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has about the engine, cars, history, etc.

But please don't ask me about the contract with Disney. It took us 5 years - yes, FIVE years - to work out an agreement with the Mouse's legal department, and I sure don't want to disturb their slumber!

mjc@thermawave.com

Michael:

What are your plans for the engine / car?

Im actually in San Ramon...just a stones throw from ya.

Ben Quirk

> I'm the proud owner of FWRR engine #4. (It
> was my engine that Tom inspected about two
> years ago.) It and coach #401 now reside at
> my home in Livermore. I'll be happy to
> answer any questions anyone has about the
> engine, cars, history, etc.

> But please don't ask me about the contract
> with Disney. It took us 5 years - yes, FIVE
> years - to work out an agreement with the
> Mouse's legal department, and I sure don't
> want to disturb their slumber!


benquirkc@yahoo.com

Hi Ben,

Right now, I'm keeping it safe and dry. I'm also in the process of obtaining all the jewelry that was taken off while they were stored in the "open air yard" (Disney term for swamp.) The good news is that I've just now gotten all the missing pieces.

As funding permits, I'm going to fully restore the engine and coach. I don't plan on dropping in a new boiler or changing the tubes, so it won't be operable at this time. Besides, there aren't many 30" gauge roads to run it on, and re-gauging for 3' is no fun. However, when working on cylinders, running gear, etc., you might as well restore it to operating condition if you're going to be scraping rust off of it anyway.

Speaking of that, I'm recruiting volunteers to help with the restoration. Please drop me a line if you're interested. Although they were built in 1973, they are a pretty close copy of a Baldwin plantation loco (they were based on Jerry Best's Olomana.) And I do plan on striping off all that non-standard safety stuff (it really does have an alarm instead of a sight glass), so it will get closer to the real thing by the time we're done. I will also probably take Tom's suggestion to rig it for one man operation.

Michael

> Michael:

> What are your plans for the engine / car?

> Im actually in San Ramon...just a stones
> throw from ya.

> Ben Quirk


mjc@thermawave.com

I'm suprised Disney didn't go the extra 6" (from 30" to 36") to match up to narrow gauge and stick with a standard.

I still can't understand why Disney spent over 1 million to build the FW line (back in the 70s mind you) and decided it was a better idea to let 4 engines 20 passenger cars rust and rip up 3.5 miles of track than to maybe- design a tender or something to increase fuel and water. Another thing I don't understand is "low paid" park employees that didn't understand what it took to keep a steam engine going, yet Disney canned the line due to "high labor costs." I'm more convinced that Disney was worried about liability and noise issues. The campground was growing and the trains didn't "fit" anymore. Just one mans opinion...

> It's the Walt Disney empire. Insert your
> favorite from a wide range of available
> "conspiracy theories" about the
> "Evil Disney Empire". The
> impression I would get from reading up on
> the Disney railroad enterprises is that, as
> operable locomotives, they would somehow
> call attention to a "bad decision"
> by Disney and thus make the corporation look
> less than 100% perfect and successful.
> (Bluntly put, the "Fort Wilderness
> Railroad" was a half-baked idea that
> was beset by a combination of bad
> engineering/logistics and high labor
> costs--in effect, they were attempting to
> use live-steam trains, to be run by
> semi-skilled employees, as a people-mover on
> too-narrow tracks.)


Go to Fort Wilderness R.R.
David.Rose@FortWildernessRR.com