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| For your consideration... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6009 |
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| Author: | Stephen Syfrett [ Sun Jun 08, 2003 2:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | For your consideration... |
The John Bull thread below got a lot of comments concerning the replica vs. reproduction issue. I raised the question about a "stand-in" in the context of taking one of two or more identical artifacts (namely, 52-year old boxcars) and painting one to look like a car of identical manufacture and design owned by another railroad. That was the set up. Now, I present for your consideration the following, and request your input. The museum I am working with acquired a group of 4 boxcars built for the Atlantic Coast Line in 1951. They were rebuilt in 1971 by the Seaboard Coast Line, at which time the only significant physical changes were removal of the roofwalks and cutting down the full-height ladders on the A-end. Other than some repositioning of tack boards, the cars look pretty much as when built by AC&F. The museum collection management criteria restrict rolling stock artifacts to the operating period of 1920 - 1970, primarily because most of the collection prior to acquisition of the boxcars fit within this time frame. If the collection management criteria are followed, the 4 cars should be restored to their appearance as ACL, not SCL as they are currently painted. This entails undoing all the exterior modifications made in 1971. (Note that we have no idea what interior modifications, if any, might have been made.) The obvious choice is to restore one to the 1951 as-built appearance. Research shows that one of the 4 cars was from a group of 50 out of the original 500 that were insulated and painted silver with black lettering for beer service out of Tampa. This car should obviously be restored to the silver and black paint scheme. Most of the other 450 cars in the O-27 class were probably repainted at some time in the more standard boxcar red with white letters, so that is the obvious restoration choice for another of the 4 cars. That leaves one car to restore either to the as-built paint scheme, the later repaint, or use it to represent another railroad in the southeast. Now, as it turns out, neither the Central of Georgia, Seaboard Air Line, nor the Southern had any cars of this same design, manufacture and vintage. However, the West Indies Fruit & Steamship Co. had a small group of cars built the same year as the ACL order, and which were later acquired by ACL as their Class O-27A. I seriously doubt one of these cars has been preserved. So the question (No. 1) is, what do we do with the 4th boxcar? OK, now let's complicate things a bit. We recently acquired what may be the last example of an ACL Class O-25 boxcar, sans trucks, couplers and brake rigging, but otherwise in good condition. Many of these class cars were rebuilt by ACL in the mid- to late-1960s as their Class M-5 steel cabooses, many of which are preserved. I have not yet found another intact boxcar, however. Question No. 2: Since one of the O-27 cars is more deteriorated than the other 3, do we take the trucks, brakes and couplers and transplant to the more rare O-25 body? I'm interested in your comments. Stephen S. Syfrett ssyfrett@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | Nathan [ Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: For your consideration... |
> The John Bull thread below got a lot of > comments concerning the replica vs. > reproduction issue. I raised the question > about a "stand-in" in the context > of taking one of two or more identical > artifacts (namely, 52-year old boxcars) and > painting one to look like a car of identical > manufacture and design owned by another > railroad. Stephen; That sounds like a real good plan. What might help is for your museum to maintain a restoration and maintenance file on each piece of equipment in it's collection. That would be a good place to record any alleged hanky-panky. About the truck/brake rigging swap, well, where do you think the parts come from when someone restores a "chicken coop"? Of course, a "donor"... Another aspect of keeping detailed restoration and maintenance records, is keep in mind this, your volunteer staff slowly turns over, or even passes away. Now what color paint did Joe use on that caboose in '81???, and where did that upholstery material come from??? What part number?? How much effort is spent every few years reinventing the wheel? Food for thought. I applaud your efforts, and believe that you will have nothing to appologize for. > That was the set up. Now, I present for your > consideration the following, and request > your input. > The museum I am working with acquired a > group of 4 boxcars built for the Atlantic > Coast Line in 1951. They were rebuilt in > 1971 by the Seaboard Coast Line, at which > time the only significant physical changes > were removal of the roofwalks and cutting > down the full-height ladders on the A-end. > Other than some repositioning of tack > boards, the cars look pretty much as when > built by AC&F. > The museum collection management criteria > restrict rolling stock artifacts to the > operating period of 1920 - 1970, primarily > because most of the collection prior to > acquisition of the boxcars fit within this > time frame. If the collection management > criteria are followed, the 4 cars should be > restored to their appearance as ACL, not SCL > as they are currently painted. This entails > undoing all the exterior modifications made > in 1971. (Note that we have no idea what > interior modifications, if any, might have > been made.) > The obvious choice is to restore one to the > 1951 as-built appearance. Research shows > that one of the 4 cars was from a group of > 50 out of the original 500 that were > insulated and painted silver with black > lettering for beer service out of Tampa. > This car should obviously be restored to the > silver and black paint scheme. Most of the > other 450 cars in the O-27 class were > probably repainted at some time in the more > standard boxcar red with white letters, so > that is the obvious restoration choice for > another of the 4 cars. That leaves one car > to restore either to the as-built paint > scheme, the later repaint, or use it to > represent another railroad in the southeast. > Now, as it turns out, neither the Central of > Georgia, Seaboard Air Line, nor the Southern > had any cars of this same design, > manufacture and vintage. However, the West > Indies Fruit & Steamship Co. had a small > group of cars built the same year as the ACL > order, and which were later acquired by ACL > as their Class O-27A. I seriously doubt one > of these cars has been preserved. > So the question (No. 1) is, what do we do > with the 4th boxcar? > OK, now let's complicate things a bit. We > recently acquired what may be the last > example of an ACL Class O-25 boxcar, sans > trucks, couplers and brake rigging, but > otherwise in good condition. Many of these > class cars were rebuilt by ACL in the mid- > to late-1960s as their Class M-5 steel > cabooses, many of which are preserved. I > have not yet found another intact boxcar, > however. > Question No. 2: Since one of the O-27 cars > is more deteriorated than the other 3, do we > take the trucks, brakes and couplers and > transplant to the more rare O-25 body? > I'm interested in your comments. > Stephen S. Syfrett nwstaybolt@reachone.com |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Great plan, but....... |
Most of your plan sounds nothing short of brilliant. I second the motion of "documenting" out the wazoo, so there's nothing to apologize for later. As for the O-25, I assume trucks and rigging are basically identical to the O-27. If O-25s were rebuilt into the M-5 cabooses, do you have a chance of finding a "preserved" or neglected M-5 caboose to pull a set off of? If the answer is "no", then go ahead and cannibalize the worst O-27. The caboose might be more common than vintage boxcars, if you run the numbers? lner4472@bcpl.net |
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| Author: | Stephen Syfrett [ Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Great plan, but....... |
> As for the O-25, I assume trucks and rigging > are basically identical to the O-27. If > O-25s were rebuilt into the M-5 cabooses, do > you have a chance of finding a > "preserved" or neglected M-5 > caboose to pull a set off of? If the answer > is "no", then go ahead and > cannibalize the worst O-27. The caboose > might be more common than vintage boxcars, > if you run the numbers? I've been advised that since we would be transplanting the entire brake system, there should be no great problem. I do know of several M-5 cabooses that are being neglected, but I hold out no great hope of wresting one from the communities in which they reside. Besides, if I could get an M-5, which we do not have an example of in the collection, the decision would need to be made to either restore the caboose (everybody's favorite) or salvage the under-floor components to restore the "rare" O-25 boxcar. Right now the transplant of parts seems to be the most likely option. By the way, anyone with an ACL M-3, M-4 or M-5 caboose that would like to swap for something else, we have a C&O International wide-vision caboose (No. 3316) I'd like to trade or sell pending approval of the BOD, of course). The car has been gutted, but the exterior is in pretty good shape aside from damage to the draftgear and platform on one end. If no interest (it has not been advertised as available just yet), it may become a generic red caboose for birthday parties or painted up as a Seaboard Air Line car of similar design (another "stand-in")since it does not meet the collection management criteria. ssyfrett@bellsouth.net |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: For your consideration... |
> The John Bull thread below got a lot of > comments concerning the replica vs. > reproduction issue. I raised the question > about a "stand-in" in the context > of taking one of two or more identical > artifacts (namely, 52-year old boxcars) and > painting one to look like a car of identical > manufacture and design owned by another > railroad. > That was the set up. Now, I present for your > consideration the following, and request > your input. > The museum I am working with acquired a > group of 4 boxcars built for the Atlantic > Coast Line in 1951. They were rebuilt in > 1971 by the Seaboard Coast Line, at which > time the only significant physical changes > were removal of the roofwalks and cutting > down the full-height ladders on the A-end. > Other than some repositioning of tack > boards, the cars look pretty much as when > built by AC&F. > The museum collection management criteria > restrict rolling stock artifacts to the > operating period of 1920 - 1970, primarily > because most of the collection prior to > acquisition of the boxcars fit within this > time frame. If the collection management > criteria are followed, the 4 cars should be > restored to their appearance as ACL, not SCL > as they are currently painted. This entails > undoing all the exterior modifications made > in 1971. (Note that we have no idea what > interior modifications, if any, might have > been made.) > The obvious choice is to restore one to the > 1951 as-built appearance. Research shows > that one of the 4 cars was from a group of > 50 out of the original 500 that were > insulated and painted silver with black > lettering for beer service out of Tampa. > This car should obviously be restored to the > silver and black paint scheme. Most of the > other 450 cars in the O-27 class were > probably repainted at some time in the more > standard boxcar red with white letters, so > that is the obvious restoration choice for > another of the 4 cars. That leaves one car > to restore either to the as-built paint > scheme, the later repaint, or use it to > represent another railroad in the southeast. > Now, as it turns out, neither the Central of > Georgia, Seaboard Air Line, nor the Southern > had any cars of this same design, > manufacture and vintage. However, the West > Indies Fruit & Steamship Co. had a small > group of cars built the same year as the ACL > order, and which were later acquired by ACL > as their Class O-27A. I seriously doubt one > of these cars has been preserved. > So the question (No. 1) is, what do we do > with the 4th boxcar? > OK, now let's complicate things a bit. We > recently acquired what may be the last > example of an ACL Class O-25 boxcar, sans > trucks, couplers and brake rigging, but > otherwise in good condition. Many of these > class cars were rebuilt by ACL in the mid- > to late-1960s as their Class M-5 steel > cabooses, many of which are preserved. I > have not yet found another intact boxcar, > however. > Question No. 2: Since one of the O-27 cars > is more deteriorated than the other 3, do we > take the trucks, brakes and couplers and > transplant to the more rare O-25 body? > I'm interested in your comments. > Stephen S. Syfrett Stephen: I would vote to use the O-27 box car in the poorst shape as a parts source to restore the O-25 boxcar. Incidentally, we have a Penn Central 50' boxcar at our museum that I would like to restore to its original Pennsylvania Railroad heritage by re-installing roof walks, the side ladders and a new paint and lettering job. Let RyPN know where you end up securing new roof walk material for your restoration. Thanks. Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana) midlandblb@cs.com |
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