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| 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6120 |
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| Author: | Seth Jackson [ Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
Hello everyone. Thanks for the responses to the UP Steam post. Very interesting. Well I'd like to bring up another topic. I'm interested in the period 1959-1960 on Class 1s when steam (what little was left) was playing its last hand. Specifically, I would like to know what Class 1s keep steam active up to this period -- however infrequent its use. Did any Class 1 steam operate past (or into) 1960 in the US? N&W comes to mind. Link's Steam Steel and Stars says Ys ran the Pidgeon Creek Shifter up until May of 1960. What about steam that was mothballed and reactivated? I thought I read somewhere that sometime in 1959-1960 the UP continued to run BigBoys for a couple of months due to heavy freight demands. Is this true? I also remember reading in a magazine that the IC reactivated some steam(out of Paducah?) sometime in this period for a short while. Is this correct? Let's restrict the criteria to Class 1 and subsidiaries(like the C&S running ex-Burlington steam on the Climax branch up until 1962!), and freight use -- no passenger/railfan specials. Thanks. Seth Wilmington & Western RR sethajackson@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
N&W, IC and GTW all ran steam into 1960, the latter on passenger trains. UP and Colorado & Southern stopped regular use in 1959, save for the Leadville branch. UP ran Big Boys west of Cheyenne and oilburning Challengers east to North Platte into the summer of '59. SP had a branch from Arizona into Mexico that ran with a 2-8-0 into 1959 as well. The link below shows Challenger 3710 hauling freight in 1959. This is the engine that was saved to operate a Barber-Greene snow melting machine. After retirement from that duty in 1968, it was placed in the park at North Platte. http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00018343+OP-18343 ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Greg Scholl [ Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Late Steam |
Lots of steam ran into 1959-60. Norfolk and Western Grand Trunk Canadian Pacific Canadian National Mexico(1966-67) Rio Grande Narrow Gauge Lots of shortlines(Rayonier and many others) DM&IR We are working on some old N&W steam film, and N&W steam lasted in Portsmouth, Ohio into early Feb 1960, the coalfields of West Virginia through the spring of 1960. There was steam in Ieager in January and later, and the last steam was at Williamson May 6-7. I think it was 2109 that made the last mine run, but later the next day S1 0-8-0 #293 was the last to put out its fire. 293 is in our film. We heard rumors that there was another 0-8-0 or 2-8-8-2 in steam in later May or June, but it apparently was unofficial. D&RGW narrow gauge freights ran until late summer of 1968, so they were about the last class 1 to have steam freight service. Greg Scholl Videos sales@gregschollvideo.com |
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| Author: | Richard [ Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
According to Ron Ziel's early book, "Twilight of Steam", U.P. hung onto the Bigboys, cutting them up piecemeal well into the 60's, since experience had taught them that neavy drags over Sherman Hill could not be Diesel hauled with 100% assurance. I.C. brought out #790 to handle emergency traffic in flooded territory. N&W expected to run indefinitely, but that story is well known. Grand Trunk, it is rumored, rolled the last passenger train behind steam, then committed the loco to the Sterling scrapline. Of course CN and CPR ran steam in Canada well after we had shut it down. Mexico had the last big steam in regular service until 1967. Long strings of unused locos stood around the country for a long time before they were hauled of for butchering. Referring again to Ziel's "Twilight", there were articulateds lined up on DM&IR property, Clinchfield, and N&W. Other roads holding onto large steam included CB&Q and NKP. The astounding thing is how many roads rushed to totally eliminate their steam fleets entirely. I find it very difficult to imagine all the K4's and I1's, as well as 300 Hudsons entirely, and nobody keeping some out for display or operation. glueck@maine.edu |
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| Author: | Seth Jackson [ Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
> The astounding thing is how many roads > rushed to totally eliminate their steam > fleets entirely. I find it very difficult to > imagine all the K4's and I1's, as well as > 300 Hudsons entirely, and nobody keeping > some out for display or operation. Richard, with your last paragraph you read my mind. For me, It's hard to fathom at times how thorough steam scrapping was -- 2 K4s left out of 425, 1 I1 left out of 589, 2 mainline steamers left out of ALL B&O steam... The list goes on. Considering the size of the PRR's steam roster, I consider us lucky to have what's left, Northumberland-style. The "ones that got away" stories are real tear-jerkers, too. Like the B&O EM-1 that was being moved from terminal to terminal until a home could be found, only to be scrapped when the roundhouse foreman went on vacation. Ah, what might have been.... Seth Wilmington & Western RR sethajackson@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Jim Herron [ Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
IC ran steam after 1960 in the Paducah area. The policy was to keep engines with remaining flue time in the roundhouse. Once the flue time expired they were moved to the scrap line. I recall 2-10-2 2807 and 2-8-2 1518 in the roundhouse as late as 1962 when I went to Paducah to buy a headlight (from 4-8-2 2448). There were reports of 0-8-0's operating in the Paducah yards and occasional coal drags in the area as late as 1962. 4-8-2 2613 ran two excursions out of Louisville in May and October, 1960, the first to Paducah and the second to Dawson Springs. I had a cab ride on the second trip between Central City and Dawson Springs. On the May trip to Paducah we noted over 300 engines in scrap lines or storage. Most had been sent there from the Kentucky Division and from Southern Illinois and the Indiana Division. IC also had scrap lines at McComb, MS and probably in the Chicago area. Our video "MidAmerican Glory-ICRR" has steam in service on many of these lines, including the fan trips and freight service at Louisville, Central City, McComb, Illinois mainline, Indianapolis, Paducah and other places. It also shows roundhouses at Louisville, Paducah and McComb where an extender had to be used on the turntable to accomodate the 2500 series Mountains. The IC was the last steam railroad in Louisville and gradually dieselized it's freight operations after Jan 1, 1958. After that date, steam generally ran between Central City and Paducah until sometime in 1960. Also, when Paducah closed out steam it affected short lines that had relied on the IC to supply parts for their own steam. Kentucky & Tennessee Ry dieselized more due to lack of parts availability than other reasons. I believe it was in 1965 that they dieselized and Paul Merriman bought their number 12, ex SR 4501. Regarding N&W, I was at Williamson in mid-April, 1960. At that time there were several S1a 0-8-0's and a few Y's running Wednesday - Friday on mine runs. I spent several days there and got to know the hostler who let me move Y6 2154 from the lubritorium to the coal dock. THAT made the whole trip worth while! hrvideo@mindspring.com |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Steam to Scrap |
One reason for delayed scrapping of steam locos was the need to wait until their trust arrangements were no longer valid. The Pere Marquette 2-8-4 locos sat for years at New Buffalo, MI until their trusts expired and the railroad had sole ownership, and could then scrap them. I'm sure someone from the 1224 group can explain this in detail and correct me, if needed. Older locos which were never subject to trust purchase, or had them paid off earlier, were not subject to such delays and could go to scrap at once, or when the price was right (high). rdgoldfede@aol.com |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour Class 1 Steam clarificatiions.. |
> According to Ron Ziel's early book, > "Twilight of Steam", U.P. hung > onto the Bigboys, cutting them up piecemeal > well into the 60's, since experience had > taught them that neavy drags over Sherman > Hill could not be Diesel hauled with 100% > assurance. I.C. brought out #790 to handle > emergency traffic in flooded territory. > N&W expected to run indefinitely, but > that story is well known. Grand Trunk, it is > rumored, rolled the last passenger train > behind steam, then committed the loco to the > Sterling scrapline. Of course CN and CPR ran > steam in Canada well after we had shut it > down. Mexico had the last big steam in > regular service until 1967. > Long strings of unused locos stood around > the country for a long time before they were > hauled of for butchering. Referring again to > Ziel's "Twilight", there were > articulateds lined up on DM&IR property, > Clinchfield, and N&W. Other roads > holding onto large steam included CB&Q > and NKP. > The astounding thing is how many roads > rushed to totally eliminate their steam > fleets entirely. I find it very difficult to > imagine all the K4's and I1's, as well as > 300 Hudsons entirely, and nobody keeping > some out for display or operation. To clarify a couple of things on this thread: 1. IC 2-8-0 #790 had already been sold by the railroad to Lou Keller when an industry used it to switch the operation during high flood waters. 2. It is rumoured that, after the GTW shut down their steam operations after the two "last steam powered regularly scheduled U.S. passenger runs" were made by 4-8-4's, a trainmaster fired up 2-8-2 #4070 (ex-#3734) to operate a freight extra as no diesels were available at the time. 3. The locomotives used at the end by Colorado & Southern on the Climax branch were NOT former Burlington engines, but 2-8-0's that had been originally built for the C&S. The C&S was owned by the Burlinton however. Les Beckman (HVRM) midlandblb@cs.com |
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| Author: | Mike Shirk [ Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
The Reading Co. operated its Reading, PA Shops 0-6-0T switcher up until February 1964, when it was finally retired. http://www.readingrailroad.org/profiles/rdg_profil |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
For late steam in the West,especially the last operations of the UP Big Boys on Sherman hill, you might check the issues of the Iron horse News edited by Bob Richardson at the Colorado railroad Museum. He loves steam in all its forms, not just narrow gauge and mentioned the main lines often in the newsletter. Ted Miles ted_miles@nps.gov |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 11th Hour/Reactivated Class 1 Steam... |
Pennsylvania & Atlantic Railroad - Union Transportation Co. used a PRR switcher in the Ft. Dix, N.J. area into 1959 (May?). When replaced by a 44-ton diesel, it ran light under its own power across Delair Bridge to the PRR's West Phila., Pa. engine house. That could be considered the last steam operation FOR the PRR. 104577.651@compuserve.com |
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| Author: | Richard [ Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Amazing - No grace! |
The little engine was cooled down, her number and builder's plates removed, cleaned, and prominently displayed in PRR headquarters in Philly. Obviously, the railroad recognized the historical prominence of the little engine, and could have even built a display pedestal for it in Philly. Instead, she was butchered, just like the others. I doubt such a thing would happen under the preservation guidelines subscribed to in the modern USA. glueck@maine.edu |
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