Here's a question for debate -

After a display locomotive has been abated of asbestos, should the jacket be placed back on the boiler shell?

And, what about pipe wrap? Should the steam pipes be re-wrapped with a non-asbestos wrap?

IMO, the answer is yes. After all, this is how the locomotives were operated and isn't it important and part of the museum's mission to present the artifact as it would have looked when in service?

Fire away...

G. Mark - TVRM

TVRM Shop Updates by Steve Freer
aw90@comcast.net

> Here's a question for debate -

> After a display locomotive has been abated
> of asbestos, should the jacket be placed
> back on the boiler shell?

> And, what about pipe wrap? Should the steam
> pipes be re-wrapped with a non-asbestos
> wrap?

> IMO, the answer is yes. After all, this is
> how the locomotives were operated and isn't
> it important and part of the museum's
> mission to present the artifact as it would
> have looked when in service?

> Fire away...

> G. Mark - TVRM

I'm no mechanic but I think that for display purposes any locomotive looks better the more complete it is. Also I would think the jacket and pipe wraps would aid in preserving whats underneath, thus adding to the life of the piece.
Short answer is I agree with you.
Greg Scholl

> Here's a question for debate -

> After a display locomotive has been abated
> of asbestos, should the jacket be placed
> back on the boiler shell?

> And, what about pipe wrap? Should the steam
> pipes be re-wrapped with a non-asbestos
> wrap?

> IMO, the answer is yes. After all, this is
> how the locomotives were operated and isn't
> it important and part of the museum's
> mission to present the artifact as it would
> have looked when in service?

> Fire away...

> G. Mark - TVRM

Yes!

Les Beckman (HVRM)


midlandblb@cs.com

Dear Mark:
I certainly agree that the jacket should be re-applied over wood or metal spacers after the rust has been removed from the boiler and firebox and they have been well painted.
Pipe wrap? It would look nice, but what would you use that would look appropriate yet not hold moisture against the pipe causing it to rust further?
One of our goals ought to be to "do no harm", so while the jacketing might actually help protect the boiler from further deterioration, the pipe wrap, while historically accurate, might. Of course, if the locomotive were to be inside a building of some sort, then the wrap probably wouldn't be harmful.
J.David
P.S. Tell us a story about why you think the No. 1702's roller bearing conversion was a failure.
JDC

jdconrad@snet.net

Yes to the jacket. A cosmetically restored locomotive should look as if it is operable. On those where the old jacket is long gone (and thus not available to use as patterns), some tapered sections would seem to be a problem. Anyone have suggestions for re-creating these?

On CV 220, we started with wood strips under the jacketing, but ended up using strips of styrofoam insulation glued onto the boiler with liquid nails. It's much easier to cut and seemed to support weight pretty well. Probably not good for every situation, but it worked for us.

http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/htm/museum/buildings_collections/buildings/locomotive/locomo.htm
ryarger@rypn.org

> some tapered sections would seem to be a
> problem. Anyone have suggestions for
> re-creating these?

Layout for boilermakers has the method for laying out tapered courses of boilers. it would be simple to use the method for jacketing.

As far a jacketing a display locomotive I would base the desision on a number of items. If the loco was going to be on display inside than yes hands down it would be jacketed.

outside would depend on climate, available funds for future maintenance, and birds and insecets present. Here in Grand Island we have a constant problem with wasps. and they find every cavity to use. Birds and bats may be a problem too.

The engine we are doing a cosmetic on here will not be reciving a jacket due to fund availability. I would rather leave the boiler naked and leave some funds for future upkeep that blow the whole wad up front.

Welcome to the Tuesday philosophical discussion group. Now with the next opinion...

We learned a little trick from Scott Lindsay of Steam Operations about spacers under jacketing that we've used a few times at the Museum of Transportation.

He recommended to us the use of PVC pipe strung horizontally with polypropylene baling twine around the boiler. The advantages of this approach are that the PVC pipe, unlike wood or metal, is relatively inert and not subject to rot or rust; the pipe allows for constant air circulation between the boiler and jacket; and the pipe is easy to cut and install.

Museum of Transportation Special Events
mbutterworth@stlouisco.com

That sounds like a good method. If you have any photos, I think we'd all like to see them.

> We learned a little trick from Scott Lindsay
> of Steam Operations about spacers under
> jacketing that we've used a few times at the
> Museum of Transportation.

> He recommended to us the use of PVC pipe
> strung horizontally with polypropylene
> baling twine around the boiler. The
> advantages of this approach are that the PVC
> pipe, unlike wood or metal, is relatively
> inert and not subject to rot or rust; the
> pipe allows for constant air circulation
> between the boiler and jacket; and the pipe
> is easy to cut and install.


ryarger@rypn.org

What Paul said.

Also, like JDC asked, about those roller bearings........

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Sorry, I just had to say it.

But I agree: they do all have to have a jacket to look complete...

... now someone help me understand the wisdom of not reinstalling the valve gear or main rods on many display engines?

http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com

> Dear Mark:
> I certainly agree that the jacket should be
> re-applied over wood or metal spacers after
> the rust has been removed from the boiler
> and firebox and they have been well painted.
> Pipe wrap? It would look nice, but what
> would you use that would look appropriate
> yet not hold moisture against the pipe
> causing it to rust further?
> One of our goals ought to be to "do no
> harm", so while the jacketing might
> actually help protect the boiler from
> further deterioration, the pipe wrap, while
> historically accurate, might. Of course, if
> the locomotive were to be inside a building
> of some sort, then the wrap probably
> wouldn't be harmful.
> J.David
> P.S. Tell us a story about why you think the
> No. 1702's roller bearing conversion was a
> failure.
> JDC

Mark,

Having spent a season with the 1702 without roller bearings and No Mechanical failures, I'd also like to hear more about the roller bearing conversion, reason it failed and what Scott has gone through converting her back to her original configuration.

Thanks,
Grant



beam@tusco.net

> Sorry, I just had to say it.

> But I agree: they do all have to have a
> jacket to look complete...

> ... now someone help me understand the
> wisdom of not reinstalling the valve gear or
> main rods on many display engines?

The jacket is of course needed for apperance reasons for sure but that sheet metal is bound to
retain moisture along the boiler shell promoting
rust.Sealing this completely would prove difficult
if not imposible.O.W.Links engine(CP453)is on
display in Utica, N.Y. without a jacket and does
not look that bad. Most non-fans would'nt even
notice. Our chapters engine (NYC6721)is being
cosmeticly restored with a jacket and we are
using 3/4 inch styrofoam,2" wide cut from 4x8
panels we got at a local home center. I think
this will work out well.