Correct answer wins a case of notoriety.
Here's the question:
Why was the "1" on the B&M 3713's front number plate casting (the one under the bell) gound off, then re-applied? I noticed this today when I was sitting in the smokebox (taking a break from the heat)looking down at the number plate (the smokebox front is now in the pit below the locomotive). I noticed the width of the number 1 was narrow compared to the other numbers and it is only a simple strip of metal riveted in place. Looking at 2 photos I have of the front of 3713, there is one photo where the number 1 is completly missing and in the other photo the number 1 is of the same font as the other numbers and of similar width. So...What happened to #1?

Bruce Mowbray
Steamtown NHS

PS I don't know the correct answer so please be honest.


trainhead@mymail.emcyber.com

> Correct answer wins a case of notoriety.
> Here's the question:
> Why was the "1" on the B&M
> 3713's front number plate casting (the one
> under the bell) gound off, then re-applied?
> I noticed this today when I was sitting in
> the smokebox (taking a break from the
> heat)looking down at the number plate (the
> smokebox front is now in the pit below the
> locomotive). I noticed the width of the
> number 1 was narrow compared to the other
> numbers and it is only a simple strip of
> metal riveted in place. Looking at 2 photos
> I have of the front of 3713, there is one
> photo where the number 1 is completly
> missing and in the other photo the number 1
> is of the same font as the other numbers and
> of similar width. So...What happened to #1?

> Bruce Mowbray
> Steamtown NHS

> PS I don't know the correct answer so please
> be honest.

Bruce:

Interesting! Could we have another "wrong" locomotive here? Such as Rock Island 4-6-2 #886 (which is the locomotive Peoria wanted to put in one of their parks) but the 886 was in such bad shape that the Rock gave Peoria the 887, renumbered as the 886, instead. Or Nickel Plate Road 2-8-4 #767 (which is the locomotive Ft. Wayne wanted donated for their park) but again, the 767 was deemed to far gone so the folks in Ft. Wayne got the 765 re-numbered as the 767. There are other examples. BUT, my guess (and its only a guess) is that some light fingered person stole the 3713's number plate casting and the B&M had to grab a plate from a retired 3700 (was there a 3703...,or a 3723?) and grind off the third numeral and replace it with a "1". Hope somebody out there knows for sure.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

midlandblb@cs.com

I believe most parts of the locomotive are stamped 3713, with a few exceptions as replacements from other P4's (Bruce, correct me if I'm wrong). So I think the 3713 under restoration IS the actual 3713.

The only thing I notice where this is concerned is that the "one" in question matches the font on the cab, but NOT the font on the angled number boards on the smokebox. They look like a recent addition.

Wasn't the final B&M lettering style sort of plain, like "helvetica"? The cab and tender numbers have no serifs. Could it be that when the font was changed on the loco, that the "one" was modified to match? It may have simply had it's serif removed(?)



SJHussar@aol.com

> Correct answer wins a case of notoriety.
> Here's the question:
> Why was the "1" on the B&M
> 3713's front number plate casting (the one
> under the bell) gound off, then re-applied?
> I noticed this today when I was sitting in
> the smokebox (taking a break from the
> heat)looking down at the number plate (the
> smokebox front is now in the pit below the
> locomotive). I noticed the width of the
> number 1 was narrow compared to the other
> numbers and it is only a simple strip of
> metal riveted in place. Looking at 2 photos
> I have of the front of 3713, there is one
> photo where the number 1 is completly
> missing and in the other photo the number 1
> is of the same font as the other numbers and
> of similar width. So...What happened to #1?

> Bruce Mowbray
> Steamtown NHS

> PS I don't know the correct answer so please
> be honest.
Jim Shaunessey's famous "Hail Mary" photo of 3713 in April 1956 clearly shows the missing 1. Other pictures taken that day also show it. I always assumed that each numeral was a bolt-on or riveted and that the 1 rattled off sometime before the Farewell to Steam event. I also assume that at a later date, someone tried to replace the missing 1, but didn't get it quite right.


wrj494@aol.com

The number plate is cast one piece. Including the numbers.(except the 1) Looking at the plate closely reveals that somthing was ground away where the questionable 1 is now riveted on. Looking real close, I can say that there is only room for a tall narrow character (like the numeral 1) in the area of the grinding marks.
I will look on monday for an additional number stamped elsewhere on the plate. However, the only parts that I have come across (and I have taken over 100 parts off the loco since I started) that have loco numbers stamped on them is the drivers and axles. And yes, only one pair of drivers has #3713 stamped on them. the other drivers have numbers from two of 3713's sister locomotives clearly stamped.

The plot thickens....

Bruce Mowbray
Steamtown NHS

trainhead@mymail.emcyber.com

> The number plate is cast one piece.
> Including the numbers.(except the 1) Looking
> at the plate closely reveals that somthing
> was ground away where the questionable 1 is
> now riveted on. Looking real close, I can
> say that there is only room for a tall
> narrow character (like the numeral 1) in the
> area of the grinding marks.
> I will look on monday for an additional
> number stamped elsewhere on the plate.
> However, the only parts that I have come
> across (and I have taken over 100 parts off
> the loco since I started) that have loco
> numbers stamped on them is the drivers and
> axles. And yes, only one pair of drivers has
> #3713 stamped on them. the other drivers
> have numbers from two of 3713's sister
> locomotives clearly stamped.

> The plot thickens....

> Bruce Mowbray
> Steamtown NHS
Pictures taken at the Farewell to Steam trip between Boston and Portland in April, 1956 also show that the plate bearing the name "Constitution" with the name of the child giving the name had been removed. I wonder if 3713 was in imminent danger of scrapping and was in the process of whitelining when someone got the idea of that last trip and pulled her off the scrap track just in time.
It wouldn't be unusual for driver and axle sets to be swapped around in the last years of steam. I think you can be confident that the locomotive is truly 3713 admittedly with borrowed parts.


wrj494@aol.com

> Pictures taken at the Farewell to Steam trip
> between Boston and Portland in April, 1956
> also show that the plate bearing the name
> "Constitution" with the name of
> the child giving the name had been removed.
> I wonder if 3713 was in imminent danger of
> scrapping and was in the process of
> whitelining when someone got the idea of
> that last trip and pulled her off the scrap
> track just in time.
> It wouldn't be unusual for driver and axle
> sets to be swapped around in the last years
> of steam. I think you can be confident that
> the locomotive is truly 3713 admittedly with
> borrowed parts.

Here's my observations on the matter....
B&M used a standard number plate casting. To this they applied cast brass (bronze?) numerals which all had plain steel stud bolts in them. If indeed the plate on the 3713 is completely cast (except the '1'), I'ld be willing to place money that it is merely a reproduction. Somewhere in 3713's life, the original was removed and a mold made from it or another B&M plate (thus requiring the removal of the 1). There are several fake B&M plates out there and 3713 is probably amoung them. Another fake is the 1455 at the Danbury Railway museum. Yes, it is every bit a B&M plate but the numerals have been swapped. I do know where the real one is currently but it too is missing a numeral... Guess which one... The '1' of course!

sjwhitney@adelphia.net