One mistake we all make is that we assume that all the public is stupid. A half hour of driving on any public highway will tend to confirm this assumption, but it does not entirely hold water.

Do Americans appreciate history? That's not an easy one, because although most appear not to, just try waiting in line to buy tickets at the Henry Ford Museum, or consider the number of college students who fly off to Italy to look at Roman ruins.

I think plenty of people are into learning about the past. But look at the avereage contemporary high school or undergraduate history textbook. They're BORING and trite (and often inaccurate) for one thing, and that's bad enough, but look at how many pages they usually dedicate to the industrial revolution. In most cases, it's not many, escpecially considering that the industrial revolution--especially steam power, electricity, and the railroads--have been one of the single biggest influences on our history since the middle of the 19th Century. Railroads of course, have been at the center of this, but the textbooks don't show it, and neither do the majority of historic or quasi-historic railroad operations.

It's not that the public doesn't want to know about the industrial past, either. A lot of people still know that their great-granddad was a machinist, even if they don't know what that means. It's not that such a market doesn't want a train ride (most everybody likes a train ride), but they want that train ride to mean something to them. A ride that goes fifteen miles to nowhere--and takes two hours to do it--does not give that return, and once they've done it once, unless someone took the time to point out the repair shop or something equally sexy to them, they've had their fill of it, and off their wallets go to Cedar Point.

Take the Mystic Seaport Museum for a good example of successful, marketable heritage tourism. They could just offer boat rides up the river and back, but every city in America also has its own "riverboat" ride. So, Mystic offers what they don't: one-of-a-kind indoor museums and exhibits that are interesting, living history displays (blacksmiths and boat building RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!), and authenticity (usually) to boot. The visitorship numbers, and the longevity of the organization are proof that is works. Big locomotives may be expensive to maintain, but so are sailing ships and 90-year old steamboats.

And if that isn't enough, everyone else who uses a similar model--Colonial Williamsburg, Greenfield Village, etc.--has had high visitorship and staying power since the 1930s.

Now, I know we can't have a mainline railroad with a complete shops complex, and a colliery, sawmill, and textile mill along the line with complete guided tours tomorrow (I AM drooling), but I am more and more convinced that the more you give 'em, the more they'll pay you. Combined with good gift shops, restaurants, and places that sell crappy candles and shampoo somewhere nearby, a more holistic and authentic view of the railroad in its historic context with a savvy approach to educating the public could go a long way. It's a lot of work and a lot of time, especially without a Henry Ford-like cash endowment to start you off, but you have to start somewhere.

I'll admit to my youth, inexperience, and even ignorance here, but I know that cleaning up the front yard, taking off the fake diamond stack, firing up the forge, and letting folks watch you make your grabirons probably is a good start. Invite some politicians, too, and see where that goes. And don't let on that you're afraid they won't get it.

davago61@hotmail.com

A very insightful and interesting set of comments - many of your points well taken and pondered before in our group. Even Dollywood with its thrill rides and music shows have visitors gaping slack jawed at brooms being made or soap stock being boiled. One difference, perhaps, is that the business of railroading was a dirty, often dangerous occupation. Thus we are challenged to portray these skills interactively in a safe way and one that will be 'insurable'. Even the fairly innocuous operation of our equipment is becoming increasing prohibitive due to insurance.

The added complication is that most preservation efforts begin necessarily with the collecting of equipment, without which there would be no 'Museum'. This collection of treasured artificats is often not attractive to display and without funding is doomed to sit in a cornfield for many years awaiting and hoping for permanent housing and restoration. Agreeing with your contention, we need to find better ways in our planning to provide for such demonstrations and viewing of the PEOPLE working on the railroads.

Fifty years ago a simple trolley ride (or other train ride) would draw visitors since they largely remembered and could relive their own personnal experiences. But the demographics are changing and there is little the current population can identify with firsthand regarding a trolley ride or a steam locomotive train ride. That makes what we are doing even more special in actually being able to run this stuff, but certainly will require us to position it in a way to take advantage of the very rare and unique spot they had in history, rather than assume John Doe will flock to see us at his first opportunity.

Bob Kutella


68trolley@comcast.net

If you look at a lot of our museums it doesn't even go to the level of making the exhibits interesting. It just goes to "what is it?" How many of us have marked our exhibits so people who are not insiders can look at them and answer two simple questions? These are "what," and "so what?" Expanded, this means "what is it," and "why should I care?" If visitors can't tell what this thing we have worked to preserve even is and why we think it is worth our efforts, why shouldn't they thing our musuem is boring. And why should they come back, tell their friends about it, etc? Signs can be a pain to make, maintain, keep where they can be seen as things are moved, added when new items are obtained, etc, but they are absolutely basic if we care about our visitors. Expecting the general public to tell how a black, steel thing with #1 and the words "Union Electric Company" on its sides is different from several others (some also #1), how old it is, where it was built and used, and how it was used, and how it differs from other black, steel things of various sizes in front of them is expecting too much. Giving them a sheet of paper (if we have them, and if the proper person remembers to do it, and if we haven't changed things) listing the exhibits is making them do the work we should be doing. If you have several similar locos or cars with similar numbers (and who doesn't), some of which have been repainted but not relettered, how will they cope? Look at your museum through the eyes of an uninformed visitor and see how you stand. You may be surprised, even shocked, at how little you help the visitor understand, let alone appreciate what you have to offer. Scroll down to the bottom of the link for an example of a useful and well used sign. And yes, we need more of them too. We can all talk about this subject at ARM this Sept. Are you coming?

Museum of Transportation - Visit
rdgoldfede@aol.com

"Fifty years ago a simple trolley ride (or other train ride) would draw visitors since they largely remembered and could relive their own personnal experiences. But the demographics are changing and there is little the current population can identify with firsthand regarding a trolley ride or a steam locomotive train ride. That makes what we are doing even more special in actually being able to run this stuff, but certainly will require us to position it in a way to take advantage of the very rare and unique spot they had in history, rather than assume John Doe will flock to see us at his first opportunity. "

Amen, Bob!

But don't overlook the human element. Machinery has it's interest, but without people, there is no story. What railway museums need to do better is to make people more of the picture. Who worked for the railroad and why? What freight was shipped and why did the people do so? Who were the passengers and why did they ride?

If a connection is to be made, it must be personal in some way. That connection is what works in places like Colonial Williamsburg. Like it or not, that must be our future.



teamzurg@earthlink.net

Agreed with all you said Ron.

Wish i could be there but I will be sweating in Alabama. Hope somebody will be recording Scott Lindsay's comments on roller bearing retrofits. Lots of talk about it on SteamTech.

Arrrrrr, matey......hoist a grog for me on the 19th.

dave

http://www.talklikeapirate.com
irondave@bellsouth.net

> I have been with the Chicago Chapter, NRHS for roughly five years, four of which I have been a board member. In total, The Chicago Chapter has over 20 years experience planning and executing steam operations in the Chicago area and has worked with groups including, but not limited to, the UP 3985, UP 844, NKP 765, NW 611, NW 1218, Soo 1003, Milw 261, and Frisco 1522.

Chicago is the rail hub of the country, and big, mainline steam goes over extremely well here. In fact, last summer we ran with the UP 3985 and Milw 261 two consecutive weekends and did well on both. Not only are we able to fill the trains, but the crowds that lined up along the right-of-way were inspiring.

We marketed the rides as an experience of a lifetime (for young kids) something that their grandparents rode and their parents only heard about. With the excursion, these parents could then offer this experience to their children.

In contrast, the previous year we booked an excursion with the Soo Line 1003 from Fox Lake, IL (40-50 miles west of Chicago) to Milton, WI and we were only able to sell about half the train (although 9/11 occurred the weekend before our trip).

From our experience, it appears people are not willing to go out of their way, too much, to participate in these events. If it is convenient, and they are made aware of it, people do support these operations. I can only talk for the Chicago metro area, but there is disposable income here and people are willing to spend it to support steam excursions. With ever-increasing cost of insurance, coach class ticket prices have climbed to between $125-$150 (a $10 discount for kids tickets), not a cheap weekend!

First class and premium tickets always sell out first (although one canÂ’t have a successful excursion on just first class and premium ticket purchases).

HereÂ’s my point and one has to assume that the insurance issue will resolve itself in the next couple of years. Do the charters of most museums state that they have to be carried out on the museum grounds? What about setting up ambulatory displays (say in a baggage car), aggregating that baggage car with the baggage cars of several other interested museums and having it tour the country. Throw a steam locomotive on the point and bring the museum to the people. Pepper it with some corporate support and you have the beginnings of something truly spectacular.

Again, I realize it is much, much easier said than done. But (1) most things in life worth having take time and effort (2) 85% of the people who read this will quickly dismiss it as impossible (3) the indication for success is the American Freedom Train of the mid 1970Â’s.

Put together a group of the 15% who can turn the vision into a successful reality and many of the issues discussed on this board may find resolutions. Like everything else in modern America, this can succeed with a big-business approach but it means looking at railroad artifacts, museums, and preservation societies in ways they have typically not been regarded.

Who would have thought that a bunch of disparate, Southern, back-country race events could have evolved into NASCAR. The current issues facing the antique rail industry are not insurmountable, although they may seem to be.

Huge followings make issues more easily resolvable. If sitting thousands of people in an enclosed stadium within 50 feet of automobiles traveling in excess of 150-200mph is insurable, then a serene 20mph ride in an antique coach down a country rail must be, in some way feasible!

Our job then is to simply create the following in this industry that others have successfully created in others. Once the following is there, through sheer numbers, many of the issues, including insurance, will find resolution.



sf5017@core.com

Not impossible at all Bill, in fact in previous threads on this list the idea was floated of recreating a 1920 passenger train and a 1920 freight train and having them both tour as educational exhibits. I branchline mixed consist would be the less expensive alternative.....

Anyhow, insurance premiums don't seem to be based on a logical series of considerations based on real life experiences on a carrier by carrier basis. An operator with decades of accident free service with no history of liability claims is charged as much as a loose cannon. Given the preponderance of automotive accidents and relative lack of steam train acidents, how can we afford to insure millions of drivers and not a few steam excursions?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Dave,

I won't pretend to have one magic answer that will immediately fix the insurance issue. Moreover, I am not an insurance industry expert, but here are my thoughts.

(1) because of labor day, gas prices have currently spiked and people are complaining. If history is any indicator, gas prices will again come down in the coming months.

Likewise, as insurance companies decide to fatten their bottom lines they will do this by becoming more liberal in their underwriting practices i.e. by decreasing premiums (to gain more customers) and entering markets where they previously had not written policies (steam excursions).

The picture may look completely different in a couple of years.

(2) I was at a carnival with rides this past summer. One ride which caught my eye required the rider to lay horizontal in a board type enclosure.

It seemed immediately open to potential injury and I wondered how the carnival was able to find coverage for such a ride. To take the logic further, I wondered if instead of looking at traditional insurers of railroad events perhaps there are other providers who may consider providing coverage.

Again, it will require some work. But perhaps providers of insurance for carnivals/amusement parks would be willing to pool a train excursion policy with their carnival/amusement park underwritings. Certainly a train ride on vintage railroad equipment is no more dangerous or open to lawsuit than a ride on a rollercoaster!

Thanks for the reply,

Bill M.



sf5017@core.com