This is a carry-over from the narrow-gauge board !

Can anyone reading this give a definate answer to the question:
How many different whistles were used on N&W 611 during her 12 year second career ?
I can recall, and have recordings of, at least four different SOUNDING whistles over the years.
On the debut trips over Labor day weekend '82 (can it really be over 20 years ago!) the whistle sounded different than the late October '82 trips. The late 80's, the whistle had a bit of a squeel, and from '90-on it sounded perfect!
Did any of these get "tuned" and just sound different when put back on the engine?

Bob Saxton or Jack Taylor, are you there ?

Doing some research as part of a future article for the N&W Hist. Soc, I found that the J whistle produces several slightly different chords, even though they're all the same "store-bought" Hancocks (N&W hooters were homemade). The J whistles range from Bflat-D-G to C-E-G and a couple more variations in between. The overtones on these whistles make the three notes very hard to pick apart. This may explain why we hear different sounds, but I'm also curious about how this happens. Hope someone can enlighten us.

> they're all
> the same "store-bought" Hancocks

A friend of mine is building a 1-inch-scale live steam J. He has gone thru the J blueprints at Roanoke a few times.
He mentioned something about the N&W modified the way the whistles were mounted to the boiler, compared to the "store-bought" version.

As far as I know, 611 always carried the same 3-chime Hancock step-top. The whistle itself belonged to Bob Claytor (I don't know if it was 611's actual whistle) and was passed on to Preston Claytor. As far as different sounds go, Bill Purdie told me himself that he moved the whistle or changed the way it was canted (not sure which) to make it louder. I'm pretty sure they moved it back later. This is all hearsay, so don't quote me on it!

Southeastern Railway Museum
gapower97@yahoo.com

It was, always as mentioned, a Hancock Inspirator 3-chime. The whistle moved around from mid-casing to just ahead of the cab during 611's excursion era. Changes in pitch can be caused a number of different ways. 611, 3985, 844, and 290 all carry that whistle and all sound somewhat different. 611's whistle being in the cowl kind of always sounded "washed out". Work any water or have a boiler foaming and the washed out sound is even worse, but that's another story for another time.

minterjr@mindspring.com

It might have been the same whistle, but I agree with the original post, it sounded very different over the years. Based soley on what my ear deduces, I personally think they must have had at least three different whistles on the engine. They all seemed to have the same general sound but the late '80s one had a squeal in it, and unless they reworked it I don't see how the squeal could just go away from being relocated.

While we're on the subject, what happened to 3985's whistle around 1999/2000? It sounds rougher, for lack of a better word.


higginson_john@hotmail.com

The 611 had the same whistle while on the N.S.. As Gen. Foreman of the steam dept. I know the whistle was moved from it's original location and the amount of sheet metal on the top of the boiler was changed and modified over the years. The whistle was set into a "deflector", for lack of better term, that in theory sent the sound skyward, not into the cowling. These three items and changes could concevably produce different sounds.

histmachry@aol.com

> This is a carry-over from the narrow-gauge
> board !

> Can anyone reading this give a definate
> answer to the question:
> How many different whistles were used on
> N&W 611 during her 12 year second career
> ?
> I can recall, and have recordings of, at
> least four different SOUNDING whistles over
> the years.
> On the debut trips over Labor day weekend
> '82 (can it really be over 20 years ago!)
> the whistle sounded different than the late
> October '82 trips. The late 80's, the
> whistle had a bit of a squeel, and from
> '90-on it sounded perfect!
> Did any of these get "tuned" and
> just sound different when put back on the
> engine?

> Bob Saxton or Jack Taylor, are you there ?

I shot 611 in 1982 when it left Birmingham, and several trips in the fall, plus throuhout the career til 1994. My 1982-84 stuff is movies, and after that video. I would have to go back and collect sample runbys to see if there is a difference. The only variable would be the different mics and equipment used.
If any of you have our Cincinnati 611(1986) that would be the earliest one currently available, then the NS Steam Collection(1987-89) would have 611 in it from that period. Memories of N&W 611 would have 1992-1994 coverage.
Maybe someday if I ever get the movies transfered to video, I can do a "BEST OF" 611 thing, time permitting!
Interesting subject, with no firm answers about the whistles.

One sidbar to this, when I chased 1218 in around March 1987 on a Breakin run to Wilton, AL, the hooter once in awhile had a highpitch squeel to it. Engineer Frank Collins(who ran N&W steam in regular service)told ne that day, that many of the 1200 hooters actually sounded that way, for communicating back to helpers on grades such as Blue Ridge. It sounded pretty awful though, and before they left for Roanoke they had it adjusted. You can hear that whistle on our "N&W 1218 Rebuild and Roanoke Bound".
No plug intended...just for informational reference.
Greg Scholl

I talked to Jack Taylor last night and let him know about this thread. He may have some first- hand info to add, so I don't mean to speak for him. He was fairly certain that the whistle on 611 was always Bob Claytor's. As noted in other posts, the whistle was moved to a different location within the cowling, but it always faced forward. From 1941 through 1956 there were other modifications within the cowling to the deflector surrounding the whistle.

Can you imagine this - According to a 1941 drawing at the NWHS archives, the whistle controls on the J were to be both manual and air operated. The drawing was later revised with the "button whistle" controls removed. Glad they got rid of that!!!

Another thing to consider is that the sound quality of videos can differ greatly. I have videos shot of the same excursions by different producers and the whistle sounds different. Also, I'm sure that the quality of video improved greatly over the course of 611's 14 year career. Thus, if you are using video footage as your comparison, this may account for some of the sound variation. Also, out of curiosity, why was 611's whistle moved within the cowling to begin with. I think she was built with the whistle ahead of the cab, so why during restoration was it placed near the steam dome? And then why was it moved ahead of of the cab? To be historically accurate, or some functional reason?

I know from experience with the 1522s whistle that you can turn the "bell" so that different chambers face outward and get totally different tones from it, from smooth to off key and raspy. I'm sure the 611s whistle is the same way.
We experienced the same thing when we put an IC 2700 class whistle on her for a trip. We had to "tune" it by turning the bell and blowing it till we got just the right sound. The whistle was identical to 1522's, but had a different sound, sort of a minor key.

frisco1522@sbcglobal.net