There has been significant discussion recently on the Park Trains list about the Bob Harpur-built 4-4-0s at Six Flags Over Georgia. It appears they have been retired, and one was considered for dieselization. Nice looking little narrow gauge locomotives, but they apparently not for sale, at least yet. Does anyone know if they were built (1960s) using the casting patterns from the first two Disney locomotives?

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/ontrack/Six_Flags_Over_Georgia.htm
ryarger@rypn.org

> There has been significant discussion
> recently on the Park Trains list about the
> Bob Harpur-built 4-4-0s at Six Flags Over
> Georgia. It appears they have been retired,
> and one was considered for dieselization.
> Nice looking little narrow gauge
> locomotives, but they apparently not for
> sale, at least yet. Does anyone know if they
> were built (1960s) using the casting
> patterns from the first two Disney
> locomotives?
First are you sure that these engine's are Harper's engine's too me they look like engine;s that were built buy Crown Metal product's mailly because of design and all crown metal products did look basicly the same,,and they did build in 12" 15" 24" 36" gauge,,,so maybe I am not write,,But i will still say these engine's came from Crown Metal....

cprh1b@concast.net

Pat,

I've been told by the men who formerly ran these locomotives that they were Harpur(Disney) built in the mid sixties. They do resemble crown engines somewhat though, so it would be harder to tell.

Hayes S.

> First are you sure that these engine's are
> Harper's engine's too me they look like
> engine;s that were built buy Crown Metal
> product's mailly because of design and all
> crown metal products did look basicly the
> same,,and they did build in 12"
> 15" 24" 36" gauge,,,so maybe
> I am not write,,But i will still say these
> engine's came from Crown Metal....

Gentlemen,

I ran the locomotives at Six Flags Over Georgia for four years, and was the last person to run #49, the Texas, under her own power last October. The locomotives were indeed built by Bob Harpur, who rebuilt the Disney World locomotives when they came up from Mexico. Originally the locomotives had welded bar frames. These proved to be subpar, and as a result Crown Metals was contracted to build new cast frames sometime in the late sixties or early seventies. The frames are the only thing Crown about the engines, which are in my humble opinion much more attractive than anything Crown ever built.

Andrew Durden

Southeastern Railway Museum
gapower97@yahoo.com

> Gentlemen,

> I ran the locomotives at Six Flags Over
> Georgia for four years, and was the last
> person to run #49, the Texas, under her own
> power last October. The locomotives were
> indeed built by Bob Harpur, who rebuilt the
> Disney World locomotives when they came up
> from Mexico. Originally the locomotives had
> welded bar frames. These proved to be
> subpar, and as a result Crown Metals was
> contracted to build new cast frames sometime
> in the late sixties or early seventies. The
> frames are the only thing Crown about the
> engines, which are in my humble opinion much
> more attractive than anything Crown ever
> built.

> Andrew Durden
Just wanted to say the photos of these locomotives are mine and I'm glad to share them. I hope the "retirement" of these locomotives is only temporary. In video that I shot of the General, I got a close up of the builders plate on the fireman's side, it shows Mr. Harpur's last name as the builder in 1966. I've ridden behind these locomotives all of my life. The locos put on a good show leaving the Rabun Gap station and climbing the grade. These trains are the only reason I ever went to Six Flags. Hope to see them return in the very near furture.

jtacmebgray@wmconnect.com

> First are you sure that these engine's are
> Harper's engine's too me they look like
> engine;s that were built buy Crown Metal
> product's mailly because of design and all
> crown metal products did look basicly the
> same,,and they did build in 12"
> 15" 24" 36" gauge,,,so maybe
> I am not write,,But i will still say these
> engine's came from Crown Metal....

How could you say that about these engines?????
I think they deserve a bit more respect.
Seriously, they are nothing like crown engines. The frame, as Andrew mentioned, is of cast steel construction. It is about 3.5" thick as are the shoes and wedges, the frame was milled down to around 2" in the pedestal jaw area to accept the original size shoes and wedges. The rest of the locomotive follows, over sized rods, oversized axles, cast steel wheel centers (so I was told), and even PROPERLY PROPRTIONED cylinders. The few problems the locos have were caused by the former mechanic making "improvements" on the original design, and making repairs that did not exactly follow any "accepted practice".
The Texas needs her boiler certificate renewed with the state....that's all. The General developed a leak in one of the bottom tubes, a local boiler company was called out to give a quote, only $15,000 for a new set installed.
The problem goes further than mechanical. Some members of the engine crew(Andrew excluded) were not reliable, in the 2002 season the train did not operate a majority of the days it was supposed to, including the day of the parks anniversary celebration. That one raised corporates eyebrow, it was the first ride to operate in '67. Six Flags Inc., and SFOG were sick of the steam engine not operating when it was suppposed to, they decided that they would get a diesel since, after all, "anyone can run those". But that is what happens when......
As of the last update, the locomotives were ordered and then moved out of the shop so the new steam/diesel standin can get over the pit.
On a positive note, they CANNOT chop up the locomotives. They are still property of the "Limited Partners"(original operator/builder of the park), the tenders are newer and not property of the "Limited Partners". So, the plan is to have a new tender/motivepower car built for one engine, and place the other on display in the park. The tenders are newer and not owned by the "Limited Partners".

Jason Sobczynski
Formerly Six Flags Over Georgia

Steam crew supervisor.


jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

Guys,

I'm told there was an article on these locomotives published in Trains or similar magazine about the time they were built. If anyone out there is familiar with this, please let me know.

Cameron Wallace

camerongwallace@comcast.net

> Guys,

> I'm told there was an article on these
> locomotives published in Trains or similar
> magazine about the time they were built. If
> anyone out there is familiar with this,
> please let me know.

> Cameron Wallace

I never came accross an article, however there was a photo published of these two on a flatcar on there way to GA with a fairly long caption.
I don't remember the exact month, but it was in the later half of '66 to first quarter of '67.

Jason


jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

I grew up in St. Louis and went to Six Flags over Mid America very frequently throughout. When I was young the tour guide on the train consistently reported that their locomotives were replicas of General and Texas, and to my memory they did not look so much like the Crown Metal locomotives, which struck me as awkward looking from the first time that I was aware of them, but much more like typical Americans, which the Harpur 4-4-0s in the photographs do. There was mention in the article that Harpur built other locomotives for Six Flags (possibly two) and the line was indeed a 36" gauge line. I understand that the current "Tommy G. Roberts" is a Crown product, but I begin to think that the original locomotives were not. Does anyone have further information?

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

david_ackerman@yahoo.com