Someone is selling a San Francisco cable car on eBay (link below). The facts given are a little off; the car was built in 1907 to replace cars destroyed in the 1906 earthquake. It looks like it's in pretty good shape.

Frank Hicks

Cable car for sale
F-Hicks@wiu.edu

> Someone is selling a San Francisco cable car
> on eBay (link below). The facts given are a
> little off; the car was built in 1907 to
> replace cars destroyed in the 1906
> earthquake. It looks like it's in pretty
> good shape.

> Frank Hicks

I like how he says it could be put back into service fairly easily. All you need is a power plant, winding machinery, endless steel cable, yokes, slots, pulleys, drains, tensioning devices, turntables at each end of the line, etc. etc. Have you ever wondered why San Francisco has the only cable lines still in operation?

Not to be a smart alec, but the car is double ended. So you don't need the turntables. Almost makes it worthwhile, yes?

As for why SF still has them, I guess that it was the hills, but since the 1950's its gotta be the tourists.

> I like how he says it could be put back into
> service fairly easily. All you need is a
> power plant, winding machinery, endless
> steel cable, yokes, slots, pulleys, drains,
> tensioning devices, turntables at each end
> of the line, etc. etc. Have you ever
> wondered why San Francisco has the only
> cable lines still in operation?


rrrarch@yahoo.com

> Not to be a smart alec, but the car is
> double ended. So you don't need the
> turntables. Almost makes it worthwhile, yes?

> As for why SF still has them, I guess that
> it was the hills, but since the 1950's its
> gotta be the tourists.

I'll have to study up on this, but I didn't think there was such a thing as a double-ended grip car. It would need two separate grip mechanisms.

Anyhow, what we need is for somebody in Frisco to talk Muni into buying this car. That way it could be not only preserved but operated, I'd hope. Who'll volunteer?

Sounds like a California Street car. They had two separate grips (one at each end of the car) as the California line does not have turntables.

awalker2002@comcast.net

There is a Market Street cable car here in NJ in a private collection, also bought in the 1950s. I'd like to see it in a proper museum at some point. It is untouched, very well preserved. Are there groups interested in such things?

> Sounds like a California Street car. They
> had two separate grips (one at each end of
> the car) as the California line does not
> have turntables.


http://www.njmt.org
jrmay@njmt.org

Hello

I have a couple old postcards showing a cable car in operation at Knott's Berry Farm in California. The photos aren't that detailed and do not show the track all that well, so I'm not sure if it was a "true" cable car anymore. Anybody have more info on this, still there? Method of propulsion?

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

> I'll have to study up on this, but I didn't
> think there was such a thing as a
> double-ended grip car. It would need two
> separate grip mechanisms.

I seem to recall something about the California Street cable cars being double-ended but only having one grip, with a system of levers and rods from the "non-grip" end to operate the grip.

> Sounds like a California Street car. They
> had two separate grips (one at each end of
> the car) as the California line does not
> have turntables.

I bought a book last Christams that was published in 2002 called "Cable Car Confidential." It contains many humorous and unvelievable stories of incidents that happen on the cable cars of San Francisco.

One event covered in the book told about a gripman who was about to retire and wanted to do something memorable. With the help of a good conductor, the gripman operated a single ended Powell St. car on the California cable car line. As pointed out earlier, there are no turntables required on the California car line so the Powell single ended car had to be operated in reverse in one direction using the front (only) grip on the car. Must have made quite a scene.

If you are a fan of the cable cars in SF or have ever ridden them "Cable Car Confidential" would make some very interesting reading.

Joel

jdstrolley@enter.net

'Fraid not. California Street cars do indeed have complete grips at both ends of the car.

There are lots of California Street Cable cars "out there" When Muni acquired the independent Cal street line in the early 1950Â’s they abandoned almost maybe a third of the track, and tied the end of the Hyde street line to the Powell street line, so needed many fewer cars. Cars like this one were available at the time for as little as $500.00, so there are lots of them in private collections, or in use as ice cream or flower stands. Most were placed on bus frames for charter work.

Muni has already purchased some of the Knotts cars, but will never use them, instead they are building entirely new cars as needed. They have an incredible wood working shop tucked away in a bus barn, remote from the cable lines, with a Forman, a pattern maker and several carpenters. They now turn out a new car a year or so. These new cars are indistinguishable from there roughly 100 year old stable mates.

Historically, Cal Cable cars were kept in two groups, one group was set up as todayÂ’s cars are, with two bottom grips each, while the others had a single side grip, and a set of levers from the second end, allowing operation from either end.

Randy Hees

http://spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

> Sounds like a California Street car. They
> had two separate grips (one at each end of
> the car) as the California line does not
> have turntables.

As the San Francisco resident here on RYPN, I have to say yes to the above. MUNI gave away or sold a number of cars when they took over the California Cable RR about 1954.

Several of the cars were at Knotts Berry Farm running around the parking lot on batteries.
Now one of them is at Orange Empire RR Museum.

MUNI has a wood shop that can turn out a complete cable car for about $120,000 which is cheap when you consider that a new LRV costs $1 million.

As to why we still have the cables; in 1906/7 when a number of lines went electric after the earthquake/fire, a number of hill routes could not make it with the traction motors of the day.

By the 1950s, they wrote them into the City Charter, no more abandonments!

MUNI just had their first fare increase in ten years. Cable car fare is now $3 for adults. We locals can only ride them in December after the tourists have gone home.

What number is the car on e-bay? 55?

ted_miles@nps.gov

Dave, I have the same old post cards in my collection. As I understand it they ran on rubber tires and had electric motors to run them.

I was at Knotts in June and there is no trace of them there any more.


ted_miles@nps.gov

> I was at Knotts in June and there is no
> trace of them there any more.

We at OERM have CSCRR #43 also built C.1907 which was retired to Knott's in the mid to late 50's. It was donated by Knott's to us in 1985. The cars at Knott's were not on rubber tires, but did have an internal combustion propulsion system.


wyld@sbcglobal.net

I have to admit that upon close examination of the photos on ebay that it may not be a double ended car. I based that statement on the claim that the car was from the O'farrell Jones and Hyde line. This line used double ended cars until 1954 when half of the line was abandoned (making many cars available for sale) and the other half was joined to the Washington/Jackson line to creat the Powell/Hyde line which is operated by Muni. A turntable was installed at the end of Hyde to allow the use of single ended cars at this time.

I recommend the following site for cable car info (typical annoying geocities pop-ups):

http://www.geocities.com/cable_car_guy/cablecar.html

> I'll have to study up on this, but I didn't
> think there was such a thing as a
> double-ended grip car. It would need two
> separate grip mechanisms.

> Anyhow, what we need is for somebody in
> Frisco to talk Muni into buying this car.
> That way it could be not only preserved but
> operated, I'd hope. Who'll volunteer?


San Francisco Cable Cars