Once the work and calculations are completed on a steam locomotive,how long does it take to get the Form 4 back from the FRA once the paperwork is submitted?
Also,what about a possible mis-calculation or other clerical problem.Does the entire process start over again,or is it possible to send the FRA an addition to the paperwork?
Anybody have any inside knowledge on these kind of timetables/problems?

btamper@hotmail.com

When you have completed all of the calculations, filled out the form correctly, signed, notarized, etc and send the original in, that's all. You don't get a form 4 back from the FRA. You keep copies on file at your organization.
Any later changes, either due to typos or changes to the boiler itself can be dealt with with a new form.


frisco1522@sbcglobal.net

> You don't get a form 4 back
> from the FRA. You keep copies on file at
> your organization.
> Any later changes, either due to typos or
> changes to the boiler itself can be dealt
> with with a new form.

Correct. When you submit the data, which includes the calculations, the worksheets, the material specs, the UT survey, the completed form 4 and everything else, FRA has the entire document reviewed by a mechanical engineer. Once they are satisfied, they send written notification that the locomotive is OK for service for 1,474 service days or 15 years.

If they find errors (that would lower the safety factor) or suspect the data supplied, you get it all back, with written notification of what's wrong and instructions to either fix the locomotive or correct the submission errors. And you can't operate the locomotive until that's done and approved.

Submitting a form 4 from one engine and claiming it to be from another engine, or just submitting the original Form 4 from when it was built, or not supplying UT survey data, or submitting a balank form 4, or leaving out anything else required in Part 230 will get an automatic rejection.

It usually takes several months for FRA to say yea or nay, depending on how many submissions hit them close together.

Brian,
If I recall correctly from your prior posts you work/worked for Conway Scenic, so I'm guessing you're asking because of 7470 and the delay of its return to service. Perhaps you could clear up some rumors I've been hearing about Conway. I stress that these are only rumors so I have no idea the truth behind the situation. 1) 7470 and half the passenger fleet were sidelined by the FRA, 7470 failed its hydro and has a "crack in the boiler" that was not seen before and most of the older passenger cars need new trucks or major repairs to run again. 2) Most of the boiler work done on 7470 and toward the restoration of 501 was done wrong by a lousy contractor.3) Conway will probably never run steam again. Now I hate rumors like this and when I hear them or see them posted I have no idea how to respond because I don't know the truth. The sad fact is these sort of rumors are the sum total of everything I've heard about Conway recently. Perhaps you could provide some truth?

The truth is this:

An FRA inspector did sideline a few cars for bad wheels.All the "tagged" cars had been repaired by lifting the cars with a crane and setting them on blocking temporarily.The wheels were then shipped off to be trued and a couple wheelsets got new axles.These cars were recently re-lifted and reassembled with the new components.
The all wooden parlor car Gertrude Emma was also sidelined for bad wheels and problems with it's old wood/steel sandwich type trucks that I guess are original to that car from its pennsy days.
The powers that be here decided to fix the problem by modifying and then swapping the trucks under the Gertrude with a set of similar but all steel trucks(and wheels)from another car on the property,the Maine Central #2001.I have my personal feelings about this,but I'll keep them to myself since i'm still an employee with the CSRR and don't want to p*** off anyone.
The trucks from the Gertrude were later rolled under the all steel #2001 and were damaged(crushed?)from the extra weight.I guess they could be repaired, but doubt if it'll happen here.
#7470 has been waiting for confirmation of it's form 4 paperwork since spingtime 2002.We've been told that the paperwork had reached the FRAs desk, but thats as far as that goes.
What is taking so long? Is there some way to check on it's progress?
7470 also failed it's boiler hydro because of a stuck plug.I don't know what kind of plug it was.Maybe a washout plug?The loco also has a crack in the boilers saddle.Not the boiler itself.I guess thats repairable too. No big deal,but the shop crew of 2 has had their hands full lately.
501 is dead in the water.I've heard from a fellow 470 railroad club member that the club is considering moving to somewhere that it might have a chance of running again.It don't look promising.
It's not all bad. The trains are still running and the CSRR is shooting for next year to fire up the #7470.
Hope this helps.
Brian



btamper@hotmail.com

Thanks, that does answer the rumors I've been hearing; like most rumors it starts with a grain of truth then goes on from there.

> An FRA inspector did sideline a few cars for
> bad wheels.All the "tagged" cars
> had been repaired by lifting the cars with a
> crane and setting them on blocking
> temporarily.The wheels were then shipped off
> to be trued and a couple wheelsets got new
> axles.These cars were recently re-lifted and
> reassembled with the new components.
> The all wooden parlor car Gertrude Emma was
> also sidelined for bad wheels and problems
> with it's old wood/steel sandwich type
> trucks that I guess are original to that car
> from its pennsy days.
> The powers that be here decided to fix the
> problem by modifying and then swapping the
> trucks under the Gertrude with a set of
> similar but all steel trucks(and wheels)from
> another car on the property,the Maine
> Central #2001.I have my personal feelings
> about this,but I'll keep them to myself
> since i'm still an employee with the CSRR
> and don't want to p*** off anyone.
> The trucks from the Gertrude were later
> rolled under the all steel #2001 and were
> damaged(crushed?)from the extra weight.I
> guess they could be repaired, but doubt if
> it'll happen here.
> #7470 has been waiting for confirmation of
> it's form 4 paperwork since spingtime
> 2002.We've been told that the paperwork had
> reached the FRAs desk, but thats as far as
> that goes.
> What is taking so long? Is there some way to
> check on it's progress?
> 7470 also failed it's boiler hydro because
> of a stuck plug.I don't know what kind of
> plug it was.Maybe a washout plug?The loco
> also has a crack in the boilers saddle.Not
> the boiler itself.I guess thats repairable
> too. No big deal,but the shop crew of 2 has
> had their hands full lately.
> 501 is dead in the water.I've heard from a
> fellow 470 railroad club member that the
> club is considering moving to somewhere that
> it might have a chance of running again.It
> don't look promising.
> It's not all bad. The trains are still
> running and the CSRR is shooting for next
> year to fire up the #7470.
> Hope this helps.
> Brian

A question that's been bugging me for a while:

Last time I was at Conway, which was a lo-o-o-ong time ago (1983), they were using a nifty little Prarie. I think it was #108 or 106, something like that. Whatever happened to this engine?

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@copuzone.net

> A question that's been bugging me for a
> while:

> Last time I was at Conway, which was a
> lo-o-o-ong time ago (1983), they were using
> a nifty little Prarie. I think it was #108
> or 106, something like that. Whatever
> happened to this engine?

That was ex-Reader RR 2-6-2 108 (nee-Angelina & Neches River RR 108). This Baldwin logging 2-6-2 is now at Sulfur Springs, TX and IIRC it's being restored to operating condition.

regards,
Jim Robinson

The locomotive is owned by a principal of the Rannoch Corporation - he has a web site with some interesting pages about operating steam in Poland. Ron Larson of Southwest Steam Locomotive is working on the project bit by bit.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net