Since steam was gone by the late 1950's, any engineer working today would have to be 70+ to have had ANY revenue steam experience.

Is there anybody working today who ran steam in revenue service today?

If such an individual exists it would interesting to note when that last person finally hangs it up.

Alternately, if this event already occurred, was it noted?


superheater@rrmail.com

Though there are undoubtedly a number of former steam engineers alive, I doubt that any are working now in revenue service. Our oldest engineer barely remembers seeing steam locomotives as a kid (1953). The last Southern shortline quit steam about 1970 and a couple of other roads quit not long before that, but I doubt if any of these people are still running on a real RR. They were probably as glad to retire as I will be.

> Since steam was gone by the late 1950's, any
> engineer working today would have to be 70+
> to have had ANY revenue steam experience.

> Is there anybody working today who ran steam
> in revenue service today?

> If such an individual exists it would
> interesting to note when that last person
> finally hangs it up.

> Alternately, if this event already occurred,
> was it noted?


ryarger@rypn.org

> Since steam was gone by the late 1950's, any
> engineer working today would have to be 70+
> to have had ANY revenue steam experience.

Two thoughts:

1. Don't forget the D&RGW narrow gauge, which was in revenue service to 1969; depending on how you want to skin the cat you could argue that engineers and firemen on the Silverton train were still in revenue service under a union contract on a Class 1 until 1981.

2. Leaving aside that quibble, I took a quick survey of the BLE's Last Runs column. Looks like the huge bulge of retirements of the mainline steam enginemen in the US was 79-82, with 30 to 40 years' service.

eledbetter@rypn.org

Have a look at this--remarkable!

LAST ACTIVE LACKAWANNA STEAM ENGINEER TO RETIRE 1-4-02

http://www.hobokenterminal.com/press/retire.html


LAST ACTIVE LACKAWANNA STEAM ENGINEER TO RETIRE
eledbetter@rypn.org

If this includes Canada the there will be several as steam did not die until 1962,BC Rail ran the Royal Hudson train until 2001 and trained engineers for this revenue serviceuntil the last day. R Campbell was the last engineer to recieve a steam ticket and P Varterisian the last to qualify to qualify to fire in 2000> Since steam was gone by the late 1950's, any
> engineer working today would have to be 70+
> to have had ANY revenue steam experience.

> Is there anybody working today who ran steam
> in revenue service today?

> If such an individual exists it would
> interesting to note when that last person
> finally hangs it up.

> Alternately, if this event already occurred,
> was it noted?


countrytiment@yahoo.com

> Have a look at this--remarkable!

> LAST ACTIVE LACKAWANNA STEAM ENGINEER TO
> RETIRE 1-4-02

>
> http://www.hobokenterminal.com/press/retire.html

There was an article in a Chicago paper (the Tribune I believe) within the last year about the last engineer who ran a steam locomotive in regular service, retiring. I believe he was in service in the Chicago area at the time which leads me to think that he worked for the C&NW, but I may be wrong on that. I am not sure when C&NW dropped their fires (late 50's up in the Upper Peninsula I believe) and the Union Pacific itself ran steam until about 1959. It is possible that a young man (say in his 20's) might have pulled a single run in regular service, for whatever reason. So such an engineer might still be active, or at least, recently active.

midlandblb@cs.com

.... if we really want to get picky, let's also remember two other exceptions:

*The Crab Orchard & Egyptian RR, in Illinois, continued to operate its REVENUE freight service with two steam locomotives after its steam excursion service folded. I believe they finally dieselized in 1987 or thereabouts.

*The Northwestern Steel & Wire operation, in Sterling, Ill., continued a non-interchange in-plant switching with former GTW 0-8-0s until about 1985. I *might* qualify this as the last desperate holdout in North America, especially if we consider that, unlike the CO&E or other parties like the Strasburg, the crews, etc. were running steam pretty much against their will (not slavery, but would probably had preferred a diesel).

I will not pay attention for this debate to the occasional haulage of freight cars by erstwhile tourist operations. I have seen honest and legitimate freight movements handled by steam on the Black River & Western, Wilmington & Western, Strasburg, Gettysburg, and Norfolk Southern railroads, and it's happened on UP as well.

If we push the definitions even further, I can point out that at least one power plant, in Shamokin Dam, Pa., operated its two 1945-built Porter 0-6-0 fireless cookers on a seasonal or emergency basis up to the winter of 1988-89, when they were finally donated or stuffed/mounted. Are there ANY other places where fireless steam lasted beyond this date, or might these Pennsylvania Power & Light steamers have very well been THE last ones?

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

How about some of the guys who have retired, but return to run steam when it gets out on the line today? Phil Kauke, George Klous and Vince Cippola come to mind, on the 3751 crew.

fitzrr@pioneer.net

The last man with steam experience to retire from the Aberdeen and Rockfish did so at the end of 2000. He had 50 years of service and was 70 at the time.

John

jhbohon@yahoo.com

If we're talking about the "big" railroads here, it's safe to say that virtually all are already retired. Here's why:

Let's say a big railroad ended steam in 1960. That was still the days before engineer training programs and such, when a person could expect to be a fireman and/or a hostler for a good many years before being promoted to engineer. Also, by 1960, the big railroads were already virtually all dieselized, and that led to a lot fewer trains being run. In turn, that meant a lot of people with low seniority were furloughed most of the time, if not for years at a time.

IOW, anyone still around and working now who claims to have had steam experience on a big railroad may actually have had such experience, but I'd bet 99% of it was hostling and firing, and the firing would have been midnight switch engines a few days or weeks out of each year......the rest of the time he would have been furloughed.

Of course there are probably exceptions, and the definition of what is and isn't "revenue" can be spun all sorts of ways.

> If we're talking about the "big"
> railroads here, it's safe to say that
> virtually all are already retired. Here's
> why:

I believe you're right about definitions. You can slice and dice this any way you want. Exclude 'em if you like, but as Devon Generous points out, BC Rail was running steam in scheduled, albeit seasonal, revenue service until 2001.


brianf425@yahoo.com

> I believe you're right about definitions.
> You can slice and dice this any way you
> want. Exclude 'em if you like, but as Devon
> Generous points out, BC Rail was running
> steam in scheduled, albeit seasonal, revenue
> service until 2001.

Okay, I'll slice and dice.

Was the BC Rail steam crew a separate crew or regular BC Rail employees? Did they belong to whatever union, retirement plan, etc. that the regular freight crews did? If so, I'll count them as real revenue railroad operation!

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> Okay, I'll slice and dice.

> Was the BC Rail steam crew a separate crew
> or regular BC Rail employees? Did they
> belong to whatever union, retirement plan,
> etc. that the regular freight crews did? If
> so, I'll count them as real revenue railroad
> operation!

Yes, they were, which was part of the problem...they were called off the crew board as any other crew, and were not specially assigned. That meant that many ofthem never had seen a steam locomotive until the day they were called for it. Inexperience took a toll on the equipment.

However, I digress.......Most of NS's steam crew was regular, union-member, long-time NS employees, though their shop crew was mostly contractors, IIRC.

UP's crew is all regular UP employees, all union members except the top dog, and all are long-term employees, who were working for UP long before they bid on the jobs they now hold. This per several videos and magazine and newspaper articles about the UP operation.

> Okay, I'll slice and dice.

> Was the BC Rail steam crew a separate crew
> or regular BC Rail employees? Did they
> belong to whatever union, retirement plan,
> etc. that the regular freight crews did? If
> so, I'll count them as real revenue railroad
> operation!

When I rode the ttrain in 1992 and talked extensively with the crew (Bill Merry is the one name I remember) they were all regular full time BC Rail engineers and ran diesel freight service when the steam train was not operating.


eselinsky@new.rr.com

A couple of posts mentioned how DL&W Engineer Andy Barbara went to work running steam on tourist lines in his retirement year. How many other retired railroaders did the same? I can think of Hugo Lockman at Steamtown, Charlie Knapp at NH&I, Jack Haines at Strasburg, Lloyd Arkinstall at BR&W, etc.

> When I rode the ttrain in 1992 and talked
> extensively with the crew (Bill Merry is the
> one name I remember) they were all regular
> full time BC Rail engineers and ran diesel
> freight service when the steam train was not
> operating.