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| Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7345 |
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| Author: | Matt Conrad [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
Just noticed the brief on Cass's Heisler getting back into operation. That got me thinking -- all three major types of geared engines can now be seen in operation in a relatively small area. I'll no doubt find out for myself next week after the TRAIN convention, but I thought I'd ask this now anyway. How difficult/expensive would it be for the Durbin & Greenbrier "Durbin Rocket" folks to rebuild the C&O down to Cass? That would allow the Climax to make occasional visits to the CSRR so all three types of geared engines could be in operation in the same place. Is Cass's Climax as bad as she looks? Any chance of *anything* in the dead line at Cass running again? mconrad@msmgmt.com |
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| Author: | Mike Stillwell [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
Matt, Ben True mentioned this line at the Western Virginia Railroad Presevation Society Meeting, last weekend. My impression was that the RR had all it could handle with current trackage and that it they re-connected with Cass, they would no longer be insular and would fall under different FRA regs. Basically there was no big push to get up to Cass. As far as the Climax at Cass, it's in the new shop building that the Mountain State Historical Society helped build, being rebuilt. Ben has also worked on this project, so maybe he will weigh in with his comments. Also the Brimstone Shay is in good rebuildable condition, just not really needed at Cass. The shop people I have spoken with do expect that it will be put back together one day. Later - Mike > Just noticed the brief on Cass's Heisler > getting back into operation. That got me > thinking -- all three major types of geared > engines can now be seen in operation in a > relatively small area. > I'll no doubt find out for myself next week > after the TRAIN convention, but I thought > I'd ask this now anyway. How > difficult/expensive would it be for the > Durbin & Greenbrier "Durbin > Rocket" folks to rebuild the C&O > down to Cass? That would allow the Climax to > make occasional visits to the CSRR so all > three types of geared engines could be in > operation in the same place. > Is Cass's Climax as bad as she looks? Any > chance of *anything* in the dead line at > Cass running again? yenko117@yahoo.com |
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| Author: | Chris Coleman [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
> I'll no doubt find out for myself next week > after the TRAIN convention, but I thought > I'd ask this now anyway. How > difficult/expensive would it be for the > Durbin & Greenbrier "Durbin > Rocket" folks to rebuild the C&O > down to Cass? That would allow the Climax to > make occasional visits to the CSRR so all > three types of geared engines could be in > operation in the same place. Judging from what I've heard it would be well into the millions to restore the C&O line. The state of WV owns the line, I beleive, so it would be they who would need to rebuild it. Cass now ties in with the old Western Maryland line again. Does this not tie in with the D&G? The Cheat Salamander comes down that line to Cass rails. > Is Cass's Climax as bad as she looks? Any > chance of *anything* in the dead line at > Cass running again? The Mountain State Railroad & Logging Historical Association is working now on restoring the climax to operation. Saw the progress this summer and it looks encouraging, but will likely take at least a couple more years. They have a page on their site for the Climax work: http://www.msrlha.org/work.htm The East Broad Railroad Homepage ebtrr@spikesys.com |
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| Author: | Jim Robinson [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
> How difficult/expensive would it be for the > Durbin & Greenbrier "Durbin > Rocket" folks to rebuild the C&O > down to Cass? That would allow the Climax to > make occasional visits to the CSRR so all > three types of geared engines could be in > operation in the same place. The Durbin & Greenbrier Valley RR has reopened 5 miles of the Durbin line--5 out of something like 15 miles. Although they have repaired at least one fairly large washout to date, there is still plenty of flood damaged ROW to repair further down the line. That said, I do believe the Smiths have plans to push on as resources allow. One note, I believe the D&GV is currently considered insular by the FRA and Climax 3 operates under a state boiler certificate and isn't part 230 compliant. The CSRR is under FRA, so any future connection would put the D&GV under FRA as well. > Is Cass's Climax as bad as she looks? Any > chance of *anything* in the dead line at > Cass running again? CSRR Climax 9 is indeed a major project, but the Mountain State folks are making steady progress. They've got it largely disassembled and they now pretty much know what's instore for them. The (replacement) boiler has been been recently UT'ed and some thin spots were found in the firebox sheets. They are evaluating what repairs will be needed in that regard. Anyone who puts a timeframe on a major steam locomotive restoration such as this one is just shooting themselves in the foot, but (IMO) figuire maybe 2006-2007 for completion. As far as other locomotives on the dead line, anything is possible, but I guessing the Shay they got from Washington is next in line after 2 and WM 6 are done. Freshly shopped Heisler 6 made an appearance on a recent Carl Franz / Bill Larduskey photo special--see the below link for one of Bill's excellent photos. The "proud papa" shop forman Artie Barkley is beaming in the cab. Note the factory-style stripping. A tight bearing(s) prevented the Heisler from running up the mountain on that trip, but I'm sure Artie will have things in order ASAP. Nice Job!! Regards, Jim Robinson return of CSRR Heisler 6 |
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| Author: | jimwrinn [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
Jim Robinson confirms everything I've heard and have been told directly by the Cass and D&G folks. The D&G folks literally dragged a railroad out of the river and set it on a new shelf just below Durbin. It is hard to believe that these tracks supported a visitng RDG T1 30 years ago. But then to the track supervisor I was riding with a year and a half ago on those same tracks, he was amazed that a Climax could negotiate the D&G tracks--they look a lot like the GCRR on a "good" day in the early 1960s! Last "motive power philosophy" I heard at Cass was that Shays were the preferred power and they should be at lest 90tons in weight to provide the adhesion needed to pull a heavy train on the mountain. That would put engines like 5 and 11 at the top of the food chain with PC 2 and Mower 4 a little further down. As for Brimstone 36, I've seen that engine in pieces now for 30 years (she arrived at GCRR in the fall of 1973) and would love nothing more than to see her in one piece. Having seen some recent home movies of her in action, she is one sweet little engine and the Brimstone kept her as clean and well painted and lettered as any Shay I've ever seen! Now, if those guys in California who own Brimstone 35's carcas would see fit to tossing her into a gon and shipping it BACK to TVRM where it belongs.... http://nctrans.org Wrinnbo@aol.com |
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| Author: | Jim Robinson [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | minor oops & another heisler photo |
> As far as other locomotives on the dead > line, anything is possible, but I guessing > the Shay they got from Washington is next in > line after 2 and WM 6 are done. Correction, make that after 4 and WM 6 are done. And here's a link to another of Bill Larduskey's "return of Heisler 6" photos Regards, Jim Robinson CSRR Heisler 6 |
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| Author: | ge13031 [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
> One note, I believe the D&GV is > currently considered insular by the FRA and > Climax 3 operates under a state boiler > certificate and isn't part 230 compliant. > The CSRR is under FRA, so any future > connection would put the D&GV under FRA > as well. Just a reminder, you can be "non-insular" and "NOT" part of the general railroad system. Changes things a little. lamontdc@adelphia.net |
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| Author: | Ken Middlebrook [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass, Durbin & Greenbrier, etc. |
> Now, if those guys in California who own > Brimstone 35's carcas would see fit to > tossing her into a gon and shipping it BACK > to TVRM where it belongs.... During my last visit...a dismantled carcas is a more accurate description. kamiddle@rockwellcollins.com |
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| Author: | Ben True [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | D&GV RR |
As for rebuilding the Greenbreir line..... Considering the flood damage, and the fact it's been hit by several other bad floods since then, 5 miles out of 15 ain't bad in my opinion. As far was what the D&GV is planing on doing, no one really has any clear long term answers. Right now as it stands, there is talk of fixing one more wash out which extends the line down to an area where there is plenty of land to put in things like a run around track, camp ground and someother end of the line facilites. I think that maybe the temporary end goal. Rationaly, at 10,000 riders a year.....is it worth pushing all the way to Cass? exspecially when the worst wash out is ahead of you. And 10 miles at a Climax pace, is about enough for most of your riders. However, there seems to be this nagging question of how much water does a climax need to run 15 miles...... As for the dead line at Cass.... The climax yes, it is that bad, but it's nothing time and money can't fix, and the new boiler already on hand will speed that along... The Brimestone engine It's gotten a pretty good probing once or twice, maybe when the state stops buying engines... At least most of it's still there The 7.... All it really needs is a boiler, every thing that's missing is stuff that gets delt with daily any way....how ever it's only a 70 ton shay, and boilers aren't a favorit thing to have made. 612.... How long does it take for an engine to rust to nothing? or better yet...what do you think will be the last thing to dissappear?? ( my guess is the saddle) Jim's right about the motive power, they like the 2, 11, and the 6 just because of the sheer TE the 4 and the heisler fall behind mostly due to their power, and a general lack of people who want to run them The 5 is sort of by it self, engineers don't mind it, and the fireman hate it. (it's a saturated steamer in a super heated world) > Just noticed the brief on Cass's Heisler > getting back into operation. That got me > thinking -- all three major types of geared > engines can now be seen in operation in a > relatively small area. > I'll no doubt find out for myself next week > after the TRAIN convention, but I thought > I'd ask this now anyway. How > difficult/expensive would it be for the > Durbin & Greenbrier "Durbin > Rocket" folks to rebuild the C&O > down to Cass? That would allow the Climax to > make occasional visits to the CSRR so all > three types of geared engines could be in > operation in the same place. > Is Cass's Climax as bad as she looks? Any > chance of *anything* in the dead line at > Cass running again? btrue@vt.edu |
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| Author: | jimwrinn [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cass' power punch. |
Incidentally, did anyone realize, as it hit me just earlier this week, that the Cass' stable, having been down to bare bones for several years, is once again peaking? With the 2, 5 11 and Heisler 6, Cass is once again in the position which it loves to be (2 engines for Bald Knob trains and one for Whitaker trains, plus a spare) and when the Big 6 and 4 are back together, that will be six engines. Add in the Climax a few years down the road and the Agnew Shay and you've got one impressive roster. Ben, any word on whether the state of W.VA. would sell the 612? Army engines, built as late as they were, have got a tremendous charm for those of us who dream about steam still running in 2052. http://nctrans.org Wrinnbo@aol.com |
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| Author: | Ben True [ Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cass' power punch. |
> Ben, any word on whether the state of W.VA. > would sell the 612? Well as it has been explained to me the State deaccement polices take some effort and that it's not worth it to for Cass to get rid of it. However with the current managment changes that have been going on it might be possible to convince them to declare it surplus, just to get some more track space and remove an eye sore. I case any one was wondering, all the rods are around, but most other applainces have foun homes on the shays. As for the peak in motive power....you bet I noticed, I worked there two summers hoping to see the Heisler and the big 6 run, and well 2 weeks before I left they did the steam test on the heisler (sans cab....now I just which I knew where the picture was) And the talk is that the 6 will be out next summer, now that's what I heard my first summer there, but this time they are changing the scheduale and need it to take more cars to Whittaker..... so here's to hoping! AS for steam in 2050+ My guess is if nothing else the 5 will still be going up and down the mountain, might have one orignal nut on it some where, but it'll still be kick...err..chuffing. Ben btrue@vt.edu |
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| Author: | Steve Freer [ Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cass, Durbin, Elkins, Romney, Cumberland |
First hand account: Having ridden to the top on 10/22 and talked to some of the crew guys, looks like there will generally be no more doubleheaders to the Knob. Seems like this may add some slight additional wear & tear to the locomotives. #11 ran to Bald Knob while #5 shuttled the Whittaker trains. #2 was under steam as the "emergency power" in Cass and Heisler #6 was simmering by the shop still being "tweaked". Down the road, little Climax #3 looked great in Durbin. The Tygart Flyer ran with WM-painted BL2, F7b & F7a (ex-CSX F's) and former White River equipment. Farther up the road, Potomac Eagle was running their F7 #722 and "C&O #8016" ex-CSX F7 (sharp in new paint!) In Cumberland, big #734 did her usual awesome job of blasting up the mountain with 14+ cars and a couple of GP30's. People, this is big time steam railroading. sfreer@tvrail.com |
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