Skimming Flimsies, I was saddened to see that Detroits pioneering urban heritage streetcar line is apparently down for the count--definately to be removed from its current location; future prospects uncertain. Given the tremendous success of urban heritage streetcars elsewhere, it's a shame to see one of the pinoeers of the movement fail.

eledbetter@rypn.org

The reason was clear in the first sentence where it costs 50 cents per passenger to ride but one hundred dollars per passenger to operate.

tcox@parknet.pmh.org

I've been trying, off and on, since 1987 to tell the decision makers what a valuable tool the trolley could be. It's been my feeling that the growth of heritage/vintage trolleys has happened in a too quiet manner. I wish trolleys had the exposure that lighthouses have been getting the last few years. There needs to be more information about trolleys where the general public can see it. I'd contribute to a public relations campaign, if there were one.

wbaoffice@ameritech.net

The cars must run where people want to ride them when they want to ride. Historic streetcar lines provide a valuable means of revitalizing areas not conducive to autos and parking lots and can act as an economic engine by focusing development efforts. I never rode the Detroit line, but obviously there is something missing - probably passengers if each one cost $100.00 to carry.

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> The cars must run where people want to ride
> them when they want to ride. Historic
> streetcar lines provide a valuable means of
> revitalizing areas not conducive to autos
> and parking lots and can act as an economic
> engine by focusing development efforts. I
> never rode the Detroit line, but obviously
> there is something missing - probably
> passengers if each one cost $100.00 to
> carry.

> dave

Originally the trolleys ran from Grand Circus Park, where there is an underground garage to Cobo Center, which is a convention center. It passes The Book Cadillac Hotel and a smaller hotel across Michigan Ave. In 1980, the line was extended down Jefferson Ave to Randolph. This is next to the entrance to the Detroit-Windsor, Canada tunnel and across from the Renaissance Center. Along the way, it passes Hart Plaza. For its first 8 years the trolley was busy. After Hudson's Dept Store closed in 1981 and smaller stores went away, people stopped coming downtown. Also the Detroit Department of Transportation started to act like they didn't want to operate the trolley. I think there was a subsidy for the trolley from the state that kept them shutting down sooner. It appeared that DDOT discouraged people from riding the trolley by not advertizing the service, not operating it on a set schedule, and shutting down when big events took place downtown.

A couple of years ago they allow the state transportation dept. to remove about a block of track from the end of the trolley. The end of the line is now at Hart Plaza.

DDOT has never tried to learn from the experiences of other operators of trolleys. We have some major sporting events coming here in the future. Comerica Park and Ford Field are a very short walk from Washington Blvd. Extending the trolley should have been a natural. Unfortunately, no one in charge around here can see that.

wbaoffice@ameritech.net

Interesting overview and some explanation of problems.

Conjecture:
From the articles it appears that a major problem is lack of people downtown in the area of operation.
Folks are going to use a trolley if it gets them where they want to go ... very few will ride just because it's a trolley.
Easy solution to problem ..."Lolley the Trolley" ...GAG!


http://www.heritagetrolley.org/existDetroit.htm
lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Folks are going to use a trolley if it gets
> them where they want to go ... very few will
> ride just because it's a trolley.

Several years ago, I went to an Detroit Economics Club luncheon in Cobo Hall with about 1000 in attendence. Our party of four walked three blocks from downtown, but we were the only ones. The traffic jam from the parking lot, however, was massive. A recent lecturer at my local architecural preservation group stated that the City of Detroit had lost the most population of any city since the fall of the Roman Empire. Not the best environment to get funding or patrons.

Lets hope they save the rail as well as the cars -- does anyone know if its AAR or tram rail?

fred_ash@bankone.com