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NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available? *PIC*
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Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available? *PIC*
From NCDOT website below:

"The dome car has been removed from service due to new federal fire safety regulations. The cost for rebuilding and upgrading the car to the new federal standards exceeded the amount justified for this car. The Dome Car will be sold through the State's Surplus Property Agency in the near future."

This particular car is originally Milwaukee 53, and has been through a multitude of owners over the years, including CN, C&NW, UP, the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, and brokers. Before you get on Jim Wrinn's case about acquiring the car, note that: 1) its ties to North Carolina are tenuous at best; 2) the car would realize a super premium in the used-dome market today; and 3) if he really wants a full-dome, he can twist NS's arm for their ex-Santa Fe car in the future.

Incidentally, apparently the worries about fire danger are real--the first MILW Super Dome perished in a fire while in service, and was rebuilt by Pullman.

More at http://www.trainweb.org/hiawatha/domes.html


http://www.bytrain.org/passenger/routes/piedmont.html
Image
LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net
Author:  jimwrinn [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available?
NCTM's rolling stock committee considered the car last summer but came to the conclusion that it was better to pass on it. As you say, it has relatively short association with North Carolina, and it is one heavy car for a museum made up of mostly yard/shop trackage.



http://nctrans.org
Wrinnbo@aol.com
Author:  Joshua K. Blay [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available?
What are the issues with this car? Does it have to equipped with windows that open? Would a tourist line be subject to the same regulations?

Joshua
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available? *PIC*
> What are the issues with this car? Does it
> have to equipped with windows that open?
> Would a tourist line be subject to the same
> regulations?

I am neither a lawyer nor a mechnical railcar engineer (although I can play the latter on TV), but my understanding is that it'd be extremely difficult to outfit this car with emergency removable windows of the type mandated by Amtrak and commuter authorities in the wake of the fatal Amtrak/MARC collision in Maryland a few years ago. Amtrak Superliners have a flat window at patron-seat level (which can be outfitted with an emergency-exit gasket), with a curved-glass piece above; examine the Super Dome photo and you'll see that the glass is one solid curved (and probably very expensive) piece. Note also that this car sports no vestibules or doors of its own.

On the other hand, do these emergency-exit window regulations apply to private operators such as AOE, Transico, and Bramson Scenic? If so, has this car just taken an enormous hit in value?


Image
LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net
Author:  davew833 [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Other Full Domes for Sale
Westours has had 8 of its 10 ex-ATSF "Mckinley Explorer" full domes for sale for several months with no apparent takers. The were surplused with the acquisition of several newly built domes from Rocky Mountain Railcar. Not sure of the price, but I bet they're expensive, given that they've all been extensively rebuilt with at least one at a price exceeding $1 million (in 1997.) These domes do have vestibules, but apparently no emergency exits in the dome.

Westours Full Domes
davew833@yahoo.com
Author:  Tom Cornillie [ Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NC Piedmont Dome Car to be available?
Would NCTM be in a position to request a donation of the car? Although it would not fit into the NCTM collection as an accessioned item, it could be used to make trade(s). Despite the recent appearance of many of these cars (both PS and Budd) on the market over the past year, their market price is still above what most museums can afford for a cash acquisition. A non-cash transfer between two state institutions would help to bring this car into the preservation community.

Here is a history of this car from Phil Dohmen's dome car website

MILW 53
became CN 2401 "Athabasca" (1/65), CN 2701 (4/74), VIA 2701 (3/78), retired 6/82 to Great Western Tours thru J Baldwin, rebuilt by Robert Bauman/Milwaukee Rail Car Corp for Rail Travel Associates (RTAX) (2/83) - repainted in full MILW RD colors as # 53 (8/84), Golden Arrow Janesville WI (1985), "donated" to Mid Continent Railway Museum North Freedom WI (never went there), sold thru Milwaukee Rail car in 1985 to C&NW 421 "Powder River", 1995 to UPRR - unused except for "OLS" and excursion use, 1996 to NCDOT 400301 "Mount Mitchell", in service on Amtrak's "Piedmont" (but not rostered by Amtrak) (1999), but was not used in service in 2000. An FRA inspector ruled that if the car derails and goes on its side the passengers in the dome have no emergency exit from the dome. NCDOT is currently trying to retrofit pop-out window emergency exits in the dome. Currently the car is in the fenced-in and secure Capital Yard where NCDOT keeps nearly all their equipment safe and secure from vandals and stone-tossing urchins.

5/2001 report that car has now had emergency exits added and returned to service June 2001.
> NCTM's rolling stock committee considered
> the car last summer but came to the
> conclusion that it was better to pass on it.
> As you say, it has relatively short
> association with North Carolina, and it is
> one heavy car for a museum made up of mostly
> yard/shop trackage.


Web Lurker's Dome.main
rrhistorian@hotmail.com
Author:  Bob Yarger [ Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Secure area
If the car is in a secure area safe from kids with rocks, it would seem that is the best place to keep it until a similar situation is found for it elsewhere. Such kids could cause many thousands of dollars in damage in a very short time while "just being boys". In just a few minutes, the car could go from operable to another basket case we couldn't afford to repair. Eventually, I'd like to see it restored to Milwaukee status with other authentic Milwaukee streamlined cars, to be pulled by some of that multitude of ex-Milwaukee FP7s that still exist. But for now, secure storage is the most important thing.

http://www.ole.net/~rcraig/PRSVDemdFs.HTML
ryarger@rypn.org
Author:  Don C. [ Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  A better idea.....
> If the car is in a secure area safe from
> kids with rocks, it would seem that is the
> best place to keep it until a similar
> situation is found for it elsewhere. Such
> kids could cause many thousands of dollars
> in damage in a very short time while
> "just being boys". In just a few
> minutes, the car could go from operable to
> another basket case we couldn't afford to
> repair. Eventually, I'd like to see it
> restored to Milwaukee status with other
> authentic Milwaukee streamlined cars, to be
> pulled by some of that multitude of
> ex-Milwaukee FP7s that still exist. But for
> now, secure storage is the most important
> thing.

I know an operation with an original Skytop, 8-6-4 sleeper, baggage car and 4-8-4 that would be an EXCELLENT home for the car.......

Don C.

http://www.261.com
milw261@sbcglobal.net
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