I know this may sound off-topic, but with occasional posts about steamships, etc., I thought some would find this of interest. I didn't realize the opportunity to fly on a DC-3 in North America was this limited. Reading about the economics of old vs. new planes has a strong parallel with the steam-to-diesel conversion.

WorldÂ’s secondhand fleet still soars

Very interesting story. Are there any places in the US where one can take a short excursion flight on a DC3?

ryarger@rypn.org

> Very interesting story. Are there any places
> in the US where one can take a short
> excursion flight on a DC3?

Yes, there are several places where you can take a ride in one (in the US) and several under restoration.



Prairie Aviation Museum
SJHussar@aol.com

For anybody inclined to travel a little farther south, I have seen (as recently as May of this year) several DC-3's in scheduled service, in Venezuela. They are based in the interior - Cd. Bolivar and Puerto Ordaz (also known as Cd. Guyana) - and are used to reach the Gran Sabana and Canaima (Angel Falls). There are DC-3's used on the overflight of the Falls, and the cockpit is open. It's quite a sight to see the canyon walls scrolling as we turn in front of the Falls! The jump seat can be taken with permission of the captain. These craft were retired from US service, they appear to be well maintained, and were operated by Servivensa and Rutaca, among others...

r-paul@msn.com

A while back, I heard of a company that uses DC-3s to fly between Boston and Cape Cod and the islands of Martha's Vinyard and Nantucket.

The air frames are so old it breaks records each time thay take off in that plane.

It is worth mentioning tha with trains the matter of replacement parts is much discussed. In planes huge amounts of parts are replaced all the time; whole engines, cockpit instraments etc. But those planes are still considered old!

Ted Miles



ted_miles@nps.gov

Eastern Airlines had a fleet of DC-3's flying out of Boston up until the late 1980's. I've been living in the Boston area for about 7 years now, and haven't seen any DC-3's flying out of here in that time. However, I did see one privately-owned DC-3 up in Greenville, Maine that was fitted with pontoons. They claim it's the world's largest float plane (that is, a plane fitted with external pontoons, as opposed to a flying boat which floats on its own fuselage). I didn't get to see it in action though.

rjenkins@railfan.net

> Eastern Airlines had a fleet of DC-3's
> flying out of Boston up until the late
> 1980's. I've been living in the Boston area
> for about 7 years now, and haven't seen any
> DC-3's flying out of here in that time.
> However, I did see one privately-owned DC-3
> up in Greenville, Maine that was fitted with
> pontoons. They claim it's the world's
> largest float plane (that is, a plane fitted
> with external pontoons, as opposed to a
> flying boat which floats on its own
> fuselage). I didn't get to see it in action
> though.

Many DC-3 are still being rebuilt and converted into modern aircraft. One of the leaders in this field is basler turbo conversions. follow link

http://www.baslerturbo.com/
splitenz30@yahoo.com

> Many DC-3 are still being rebuilt and
> converted into modern aircraft. One of the
> leaders in this field is basler turbo
> conversions. follow link

Hello All:

The DC-3 is considered a modern aircraft. The basis of the design is not significantly different from current aircraft construction. The primary feature of the DC-3 is the monocoque construction of the fuselage.

Just some details, nothing more

Cheers,

PKurilecz

pkurilecz@yahoo.com

> Eastern Airlines had a fleet of DC-3's
> flying out of Boston up until the late
> 1980's. I've been living in the Boston area
> for about 7 years now, and haven't seen any
> DC-3's flying out of here in that time.
> However, I did see one privately-owned DC-3
> up in Greenville, Maine that was fitted with
> pontoons. They claim it's the world's
> largest float plane (that is, a plane fitted
> with external pontoons, as opposed to a
> flying boat which floats on its own
> fuselage). I didn't get to see it in action
> though.

I doubt that you mean Eastern Airlines, at least not in the 1980s -- Eastern had retired its DC-3s decades before that. But Provincetown-Boston Airlines was indeed flying DC-3s out of Boston then. These were the "modern" replacements for PBA's fleet of three original Lockheed L10 Electras.

Herb Harwood


herbhar@yahoo.com

I'll have to dig up the old photos to be sure, but I could swear I saw at least a couple of Eastern DC-3's during a stopover here in Boston in 1988.

> I doubt that you mean Eastern Airlines, at
> least not in the 1980s -- Eastern had
> retired its DC-3s decades before that.

rjenkins@railfan.net

Perhaps you were thinking of Eastern Express. I think that they were one of the carriers that operated under the Eastern Express banner.

As for the replacement of aircraft components, the aircraft is legally considered original if it retains its original manufacturer's data plate. Thus, many aircraft have been reskinned or had other significant work done that replaced original material with new material, but are nontheless intact originals.

The DC-3 vintage aircraft to B777 vintage aircraft and the Steam to Diesel comparison is not totally accurate. The performance differences between the two types of machines is what makes the difference. Diesel electric locomotives outperformed steam both physically and economically. Diesels could do everything that a steam locomotive could do.

Not so with airplanes. Older prop driven airliners are able to get in and out of many unimproved or small airfields that jets cannot, due to their need for longer runways. The smallest airline jet freighter capable of operating off of small, unimproved airfields is the gravel equipped 737. A DC-6 has roughly the same cargo capacity of the 737, but is often cheaper to buy and operate because the purchase price is but a fraction of the 737's, its a relatively easy airplane to repair and parts are still generally available. Also, it can operate into smaller, unimproved airfields because of its flying characteristics and physical design.

awalker2002@comcast.net

> I'll have to dig up the old photos to be
> sure, but I could swear I saw at least a
> couple of Eastern DC-3's during a stopover
> here in Boston in 1988.

Richard,
there is a "Northeast Airlines" DC-3 sitting at the Hampton, NH airport (don't know if it can be flown). "Northeast" was also called "Yellowbird", and did fly out of Boston's Logan International. I'm not sure when they retired their DC-3's though. Northeast became part of Delta at some point.


SJHussar@aol.com

Last time I checked, both Delta and Continental Airlines had restored DC-3s making the airshow circuits. Both aircraft are maintained and operated by the respective airline's retiree associations with the airlines kicking in some money to cover costs. If I remember correctly, both aircraft are now owned again by their original owners. Delta's DC-3 is based at ATL (don't know where Continental's is based out of).

awalker2002@comcast.net

Mention DC-3's and I recall my trip on one.

In the mid 1970s I made a weekend get-away trip by train and air. I think it was as much a trip to get a chance to ride in a DC-3 as anything.

Friday evening left Los Angeles on the Southwest Chief (or whatever Amtrak call it then) and had a roomette (this was prior to SuperLiners). I got off at Flagstaff. Had one of my best breakfasts at a cafe across and down the street from the depot. Then I got a Nava-Hopi bus to the Grand Canyon (traveled on an Amtrak coupon).

After spending a few hours at at South Rim I took a Fred Harvey shuttle bus to the local airport. There I watched the yellow Hughes Air West jet take off for Las Vegas. Watched numerous Cessnas come and go. Then it was finally time for my flight -- the return flight of Air Nevada's DC-3 to Las Vegas.

Primarily, Air Nevada operated a tour operation from Las Vegas to Grand Canyon -- "Fly the Big One." It took people to the canyon and then the passengers had a ground tour and then flew them back. I was the only one-way passenger!

I had a right-hand window seat that allowed a wonderful view of the canyon as we flew along the south side of it. There was boobly in a pastic cup. I had seen the Grand Canyon from 35,000 feet, from the South Rim; but this trip at low altitude along the canyon toward Las Vegas and over Lake Mead really pointed out the size of the canyon.

After an overnight stay in Las Vegas I returned home on Amtrak's Desert Wind on Sunday.

It was a railfan's trip to ride a vintage aircraft.

Brian Norden