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| Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7867 |
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| Author: | Dan K [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
All this talk about helicopters and the demise of F-M got me thinking about the demise of Baldwin. Why, well I work on the site of the old Eddystone Baldwin factory and they make military helicopters there now. Their bread and butter product is the twin rotor Chinook, which has seen much action in Iraq. Anyway, I've walked and explored much of the campus (on my lunch break mind you) over the past several years. There's not much left, a few buildings, a good number of foundations and rail. The rail leading into what I believe to be the main erecting shops is still much evident! I think I may have found the foundation to the dyno building, but I'm not sure. I need to get a good map of the campus (any suggestions)? Oh yeah, and there's some testing equipment with Baldwin tags still visible that Vertol probably bought from Baldwin in the 60's. But that's about it --- kind of sad given that there were some 20,000+ people employed there during WWII. Okay, so I've always wondered what happened to this once great company? Why weren't they able to transition into the diesel age? Were there products inferior? Overpriced? Or was steam such large part of their history that they simply did not want to succumb to diesel's. I'm interested in your thoughts! Thanks and happy holiday's!! |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Best Book on the subject of failed builders |
> Okay, so I've always wondered what happened > to this once great company? Why weren't they > able to transition into the diesel age? Were > there products inferior? Overpriced? Or was > steam such large part of their history that > they simply did not want to succumb to > diesel's. I'm interested in your thoughts! THE book you must acquire is Albert J. Churella's "From Steam to Diesel" (1998 Princeton University Press), now out of print but still likely to turn up in either college libraries or specialty/rail booksellers. It explains not only why Baldwin, Lima, and Alco are no more, but why and how EMD became the powerhouse it is/was. (I provided a link to the Amazon listing for the book below, but beware--the one dealer with a used copy should be wearing a mask and pointing a gun with that price...... I think the original price was $35, and I got my copy in a surplus store for $12.75....) In an all-too-shory summary: Baldwin was hampered in its ability to shift its production from steam to diesel by both a conservative management and the War Production Board; after WW2 they changed too slowly and offered a supposedly better engineered but actually inferior product; and EMD basically ran circles around Baldwin (and the others) in corporate affairs at the same time. In addition, railroads such as the PRR, with many loco designs side by side, found Baldwins to be frequent "hangar queens", out of service more than their competitors. Read Churella's book for the full story. Amazon listing for the book LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net |
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| Author: | John D [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
From time to time Ebay or other sources offers either original copies or newer editions of a publication Baldwin put out in 1928 on the opening of the Eddystone complex. It's entitled "the story of Eddystone". It has great details of what the plant complex was comprised of. I had the opportunity to drive by the plant in the early 1990's, and it was still all there. Wish I had gotten up the nerve to approach the security folks and ask if I could walk around there. Good to see that at least some manufacturing is taking place there. I had read a thread on another forum that it was mostly gone and a Wal-Mart had taken its place. Does that tell the story of the demise of American industrial capability and know-how, or what... |
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| Author: | buddy bob [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
> From time to time Ebay or other sources > offers either original copies or newer > editions of a publication Baldwin put out in > 1928 on the opening of the Eddystone > complex. It's entitled "the story of > Eddystone". It has great details of > what the plant complex was comprised of. I > had the opportunity to drive by the plant in > the early 1990's, and it was still all > there. Wish I had gotten up the nerve to > approach the security folks and ask if I > could walk around there. Good to see that at > least some manufacturing is taking place > there. I had read a thread on another forum > that it was mostly gone and a Wal-Mart had > taken its place. Does that tell the story of > the demise of American industrial capability > and know-how, or what... yes and no I went to the big auction in 1971? and some buildings were gone or going at that time. Yes walmarts is on part of the site. I went by it last week and I see that the office tower is going to be some kind of condo. Also don't forget parts for baldwins cost about 3 time what emd cost and they didn't mu with emds. regards bb |
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| Author: | Dave K [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
Baldwin was "plant rich" and cash poor. The plant was designed for high-volume production of steam locomotives. When that business vanished, they were...screwed. The steam erecting shop was actually torn down back in 1956 !!! to make way for the Interstate Highway. To be fair, no one could compete with the flush post-WWII manufacturing and marketing might of GM and their divisions. GM had economies of scale and scope that few firms could match-save for GE. Remember that Westinghouse also took stock control of Baldwin for a time, which I believe cost Baldwin a lot of cash in the long run. Yes, Baldwins didn't mu with EMD's, but neither did Alcos or FM's mu with anything else early on in the game. However, it cost a great deal of money to convert a Baldwin to universal MU after the fact. Perhaps more later... > yes and no I went to the big auction in > 1971? and some buildings were gone or going > at that time. Yes walmarts is on part of the > site. I went by it last week and I see that > the office tower is going to be some kind of > condo. Also don't forget parts for baldwins > cost about 3 time what emd cost and they > didn't mu with emds. regards bb newhaven0401-NOSPAM-@verizon.net |
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| Author: | G. W. Laepple [ Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
Also don't forget parts for baldwins > cost about 3 time what emd cost and they > didn't mu with emds. regards bb It's not strictly true that Baldwins wouldn't operate in multiple unit with EMD's. The Reading had some Baldwins road-switchers capable of m.u. operation with units of the other builders. I believe the earlier BLW's had pneumatic throttle control, but later units were equipped with electric control. Alco and F-M units also had multiple unit issues, but they also were solved in later times. As for the cost of Baldwin parts, even back in the day, Baldwin parts were three times as heavy so naturally they cost three times as much! K4s1361@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Phil Mulligan [ Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Baldwin, Helicopters and F-M |
Roger that: last 4 RDG AS-16's (551-554) had GE electric control and would MU with Alco, EMD + FM but not with the other RDG AS-16's. Understand 10 were built, then BLH had to convert the other 6 to WABCO pneumatic MU for sale to PRSL. Electric City Trolley Museum Association |
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