Saw this on the Rock Island list:

There are two (possibly three) cars about to face the cutting torch
in my home town.
1. Rock Island wide vision caboose 17017 - excellent condition:
Sink, toilet, all windows intact, batteries and fuses in place, most
lettering legible, needs paint.
2. Bunk car used as an office by Wyoming/Colorado RR. Painted pink,
no lettering, otherwise in good condition, still on its trucks. I
believe this is one of the A-50-12 automobile cars built for the
Union Pacific in 1929 by Ralston Steel Car Co, road #s 152001-
152500: It has outside-braced steel sides with Dreadnaught ends.
3. We think the following will be spared, but are not certain:
Single track wedge snow plow UP 900015, good condition.

I've taken a bunch of photos of this equipment, but - on the
assumption it will disappear in the next week or so - I'm writing to
ask if there are particular things on any of these cars that I
should measure or photograph before it is too late?

There is also an F7B (Wyoming/Colorado 1511)that they have been busy
cutting up for the past week - is there anything special on it that
I should photograph?

(Note the F7B is the ex-Alaska RR unit.)

From the posting and from what I knew previously, I presume this equipment is in or around Laramie, Wyoming. Several persons have inquired about trying to save some of the items, but need a contact there. I don't have one (the Wyoming/Colorado RR has been out of business for several years, but they may still operate the former UP Saratoga/Encampment branch), but wonder if anyone who posts here has a contact, perhaps via the Pocket List of RR Officials? All my copies of that publication are all long out of date.

You might as well forget it, Bob.

The Wyoming and Colorado is a part of The Western Group and Western Railroad Builders, a group currently headed by Dave Durbano. His other claim to fame. much more successful than the Wyoming & Colorado, is the Verde Canyon RR, the excursion operation that runs over the Arizona Central RR, another WRG/Durbano company. They also run the Cimmaron Valley RR, the Southwestern RR, and at least two tourist ranches--as well as a remnant of the original Wyoming & Colorado and a branch in Oregon under that same corporate name:

http://www.westernrailroadbuilders.com/WRB.html

I've been trying to extract railroad information out of these folks for several months now. They don't talk. They absolutely refuse to talk equipment, strategy, freight, money, or anything else. The only thing you will get from them is the tourist- and travel-promotional blather you get from the Verde Canyon RR's PR department. Even the folks that sold them equipment won't talk about their dealings with them. It became painfully obvious to me after a few weeks of dealing with them that history was only a marketing strategy to them, and that rail equipment was an expendable, consumable, expensive commodity. I've never seen a roster of what passenger equipment they have on the VCR, and it's unlikely I'll ever get one unless I go and do ultrasound on the current paint jobs. They may be a spectacular ride and tourist experience, but I would never sell them a historic piece of rolling stock unless I wanted to see it changed into something it never was.

For the record, several pieces stored at Clarkdale, Arizona on the VCR, mostly ex-Santa Fe stainless, have Wyoming & Colorado markings.

Seriously. The "railfan-hating" Escanaba & Lake Superior has been more forthcoming to me than these folks.

Now I don't feel quite so bad about riding the Grand Canyon Railroad and not the Verde Canyon RR when the wife and I vacationed in Arizona back in August.

Les

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think these chaps are evil incarnate. I don't know the full story behind the 3-4 pieces being/threatened with scrap in Wyoming, nor does the report fill me with abject horror. I'm not saying that they kick puppies and eat babies with hot sauce. The Verde Canyon is a well-marketed, spectacularly scenic ride, but in many ways it's a polar opposite to, say, the Cumbres & Toltec or East Broad Top--new facilities, refurbished cars with hot foods/cold drinks, comfortable seating, open cars that give better views than any dome ever will, a ride over a trestle that incorporates a former turntable bridge......

..... but it occurred to me as I was dealing with them that 1) they weren't rail enthusiasts, and 2) didn't know (and wouldn't ever know) how to deal with a railfan if/when one came to them. Part of this situation seems to stem from the fact that the railroad, as far as I can tell, has only one freight customer, and a captive and somewhat environmentally unfriendly one at that; I think that either they viewed my enquiries as intrusions upon their business practices--or maybe they really do have something untoward to hide, I don't know. (This only covers the Arizona Central RR; I know nothing about the other rail operations of the WRG at all.)

The Santa Fe Southern in Lamy, NM was reportedly snapping up ex-ATSF stainless steel rolling stock a while back; given what little I've seen I'd sell my hypothetical historic ATSF car to SFS before I'd sell it to the GCRY or VCRR...........

I visited the Verde Canyon several years ago myself and had the same cold response. Dismayed, I was walking through the parking lot and saw a guy working on an old hack. As it turned out he was from New Jersey and now working for the VCRR. He explained that recently a disgruntled volunteer left the organization and a week after this person left, dropped a dime to the EPA about paint cans and such. If I remember right the VCRR received some fines which made them very paranoid about railfans.

This guy from “Jursey” offered me an all access pass the next day, unfortunately I was heading home the next morning and am still kicking myself for what he had in store.

Les Beckman wrote, "I don't feel so bad about riding the Grand Canyon RR and not the Verde Canyon RR in August."


Hi Les,

I rode the Verde Canyon in late 2003 and found it to be a pleasant trip.

And, it had no lousy train robbery like the Grand Canyon does!

Enjoy, Roger

Here's a shot of the Laramie caboose when it was on the WYCO line in Kings Canyon, CO:

http://faculty.simpson.edu/RITS/www/equ ... 17017.jpeg

About a dozen years ago while traveling though Arizona, a friend and I were guests at a number of shortline and industrial railway shops. During our continuing travels in the state we came upon the station, etc for the Verde Canyon operation.

The excursion train was out, but a geep was on a far track. We were interested in seeing if the unit had a builders plate or a frame number. Well, we walked into the station/excursion train sales office; the women in the office gave an automatic "no" when asked about walking over to the unit that was fifty feet from their location.

To be fair, both Verde Canyon and Grand Canyon have a disproportionately high number of non-rail "goobers" that probably have to be restrained for their own safety, and have a large number of non-"rail" staff that probably thinks as much of "railfans" as railroad executives or employees do, for much the same reasons. You may know how to handle yourself safely, but how is the receptionist in the station supposed to know that? "Why the heck do you need such a stupid bit of trivia, anyway?" They were hired to answer the phones and market to tour bus operators, not couple trains. Heck, I've received brusque treatment at Strasburg, Grand Canyon, and other places. But I've usually been able to find the "rail" crew to talk to at other places; I actually came away from VCRR wondering if anyone there actually knew any more about railroading and trains than their job made them.

I went to the VCRR both as a journalist guest and a nosy railfan. The easy answer there, as with many other places, is simply to do your "snooping" after hours, away from the general public that might decide they can cross the tracks just like you did or think they're supposed to be boarding that derelict coach you're "leading" them to. (Warning: I had as drivers members of the county's Search and Rescue squad, who could have talked themselves out of any interrogation by a sheriff's deputy. You may not be so lucky.)

I haven't mentioned the Verde Canyon's lovely stone roundhouse, have I? No way in Hades I was going to be permitted into their working shops, even if working on a story for a magazine. Doesn't mean I can't drive the Jeep up along the razor-wire-topped fence and stand on top of the roll bars or the nearby dumpster for a photo, now, does it? <;-)

Hello all,

FYI According to Don Strack, this was orignally a D&RGW unit and the last surviving D&RGW F7-B. As of September it retained its 6 portholes:

http://utahrails.net/drgw/rg-diesels-4.php

Tom Cornillie

Hi Roger!

Well, I am not a great fan of fake train robberies, but the one on the GCRR seemed to be enjoyed by most of the other passengers. PLUS, I was able to hear the 29's whistle and listen to her as she got down on her knees bringing our train up the grade to the Canyon itself. I feel that that experience was worth the "bad guys" putting on their show.

Les

I went up to Laramie to look at the equipment today. The F7B is in the process of being scrapped and is bwyond saving. The snowplow has apparently been repurchased by teh Union Pacific. Deals are being worked on that will see the Rock island caboose and the UP boxcar saved. The scrapper was a nice guy and willing to work out a way to save the equipment. I will post more info as soon as i have it.

Jason Midyette

I live in Laramie and have talked to the scrapper. I'm willing to offer whatever assistance I can to help save the caboose and bunk car.

Larry Ostresh
ostresh@uwyo.edu

Might be nice if we could get a figure for saving (selling) the RI caboose and old UP boxcar. But perhaps the effort being worked on as mentioned by Jason Midyette makes it a "done deal."

Les