OK Let's try that again!! And Thank You Erik, it was spyware, I had Ad-aware and as soon as I updated it it did remove the offending problem.

Now to the question: Does anyone have any info on how to figure whistle pitch in musical denotation? I.E: If I have a Reading G class whistle and want to build a CNJ G-4 Blue Comet stlyle whistle which was described as being the same tonal quality as the RDG whistle but an octave lower, how would I figure the length of the chambers to arrive at the pitch I want?

captbuck@comcast.net

> OK Let's try that again!! And Thank You
> Erik, it was spyware, I had Ad-aware and as
> soon as I updated it it did remove the
> offending problem.

> Now to the question: Does anyone have any
> info on how to figure whistle pitch in
> musical denotation? I.E: If I have a Reading
> G class whistle and want to build a CNJ G-4
> Blue Comet stlyle whistle which was
> described as being the same tonal quality as
> the RDG whistle but an octave lower, how
> would I figure the length of the chambers to
> arrive at the pitch I want?

Warren,

As a pipe organ voicer, I can shed some light on your question, but I have no clue as to the whistles you mention in your question. As far as pitch, if all you want to do is lower it by one octave, you would need to double the length of the chamber above the oriface (in organ pipes, we call this the "windway") where the steam goes through to enter the chamber and double the diameter as well. There is a direct relationship between length and diameter. If you increase the diameter, you would need to decrease the length slightly to maintain the same pitch, and vice-versa, if you decrease the diameter, the length would need to be increased slightly. It is a matter of maintaining the internal area regardless of length and diameter to keep the pitch. One other thing you need to keep in mind is the steam preasure. It must be exactly the same if you double all dimentions to play a true octave lower.

Here's where things start to get complicated. Organ pipes never simply double in length or diameter for the octave lower to maintain the tonal quality. It changes according to either a fixed or variable ratio. I would guess that the Blue Comet whistle would need to be slightly less than a true doubled diameter in order to produce the same tonal quality. One common fixed ratio in pipe organs is halving the diameter on the 17th note. Let's say that the Reading whistle plays the note "c" with "x" diameter. Then diameter "2x" would be the diameter of the 17th note lower, namely "A-flat", one octave and a major third lower. There is a formula we use to arrive at the intermediate pitches. It is somewhat complicated as it uses logarithims and you would need a scientific calculator to crunch the numbers. This formula will tell you what the diameter of the "c" one octave lower is, but the length is still unknown, and can be found only by trial and error. With organ pipes, they are made over-long and cut down to the proper length. If you have the patience, you could probably do the same with a steam whistle! Remember, there is a direct relationship between diameter and length.

I can send the formula to you with some examples if you want.

Hope this helps.

Bill Ayers


prrq2@prairieinet.net

Bill,
Thanks for the reply, and as I suspected, this is going to be more complicated than what meets the eye. And after reading your information, I think the party with the "one octave lower factoid" either was talking to a tone deaf person or it was just a wild statement with no real musical background. If I had to double the diameter of the Reading whistle which has a 6" bell, that would make the CNJ whistle have a 12" bell, and from photos of the G-4's the whistle is no where that large. The resulting whistle bell would be more on the order of 36" long and 12" in diameter, which is more like a steam boat whistle. Well, I guess it's back to more research on this, and it's not going to be easy unless someone comes up with either a drawing, actual dimensions, or beyond all hope, an real live Blue Comet whistle. Thanks again ,Bill.


captbuck@comcast.net

> Bill,
> Thanks for the reply, and as I suspected,
> this is going to be more complicated than
> what meets the eye. And after reading your
> information, I think the party with the
> "one octave lower factoid" either
> was talking to a tone deaf person or it was
> just a wild statement with no real musical
> background. If I had to double the diameter
> of the Reading whistle which has a 6"
> bell, that would make the CNJ whistle have a
> 12" bell, and from photos of the G-4's
> the whistle is no where that large. The
> resulting whistle bell would be more on the
> order of 36" long and 12" in
> diameter, which is more like a steam boat
> whistle. Well, I guess it's back to more
> research on this, and it's not going to be
> easy unless someone comes up with either a
> drawing, actual dimensions, or beyond all
> hope, an real live Blue Comet whistle.
> Thanks again ,Bill.

Slightly off topic, but if you want to listen to "tuned" steam whistles, here is a link to some steam caliope recordings online. This also another preservation group for Steam Boats.

Ed


Caliope

Warren,
Go to the Yahoo link below and post the question to the Horn and Whistle Group. I have found them to be extremely helpful in all types of whistle matters.

Bruce Pierce

> OK Let's try that again!! And Thank You
> Erik, it was spyware, I had Ad-aware and as
> soon as I updated it it did remove the
> offending problem.

> Now to the question: Does anyone have any
> info on how to figure whistle pitch in
> musical denotation? I.E: If I have a Reading
> G class whistle and want to build a CNJ G-4
> Blue Comet stlyle whistle which was
> described as being the same tonal quality as
> the RDG whistle but an octave lower, how
> would I figure the length of the chambers to
> arrive at the pitch I want?


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Horn_Whistle/
brucepierce@frankelectro.com

> The resulting whistle bell would be more on the
> order of 36" long and 12" in diameter.

Point it towards the back,
and use it as a booster.

> Point it towards the back,
> and use it as a booster.

Steve,
The Shay could use a booster sometimes! I'm still trying to come up with enough info to try and make one of these whistles, any leads?

captbuck@comcast.net

> Bill,
> Thanks for the reply, and as I suspected,
> this is going to be more complicated than
> what meets the eye. And after reading your
> information, I think the party with the
> "one octave lower factoid" either
> was talking to a tone deaf person or it was
> just a wild statement with no real musical
> background. If I had to double the diameter
> of the Reading whistle which has a 6"
> bell, that would make the CNJ whistle have a
> 12" bell, and from photos of the G-4's
> the whistle is no where that large. The
> resulting whistle bell would be more on the
> order of 36" long and 12" in
> diameter, which is more like a steam boat
> whistle. Well, I guess it's back to more
> research on this, and it's not going to be
> easy unless someone comes up with either a
> drawing, actual dimensions, or beyond all
> hope, an real live Blue Comet whistle.
> Thanks again ,Bill.

Warren,

I was a bit skeptical when you said the CNJ whistle was one octave lower. That seemed a bit much. Perhaps the tone of it is deeper, but not necessarily lower, which would be due to diameter. The larger the diameter for a given pitch, the more fundamental the tone, i. e., darker, deeper, or more throaty the sound.

Bill


http://crestline.pennsyrr.com
prrq2@prairieinet.net