A lot of pessimism in the above posts (as usual). As these engines were retired at least 40 years ago, the junk yard must have held onto them for some reason for all that time. The yard's ownership may have changed, and the new owner may be thinking of thinning his collection, but I'd bet the $18,000 price tag is just a feeler to see if the railroad crazies will bite. If they are serious about unloading them, an offer of scrap price plus some profit might be successful.

Given the number of new depot museums, I'll bet someone will want these engines, at least for display. While a saddletanker, boxcar and caboose is not the most authentic of displays to put in front of a depot, it is better than scrap. If we're as serious about railway preservation as we say we are, we'll try to find a home for these sad little teakettles.

ryarger@rypn.org

A diesel is not in their scope of collections. They would not take it.

Joshua

I know there are a lot of IRM folks who post here, and the brief reminded me of a couple of questions I had. Thanks in advance for the answers.

1. Of the entire steam collection, how and why was the Frisco decapod chosen as the "daily runner"?

2. How did the J. Neils Lumber Co. Shay come to the IRM? I've only had the privilege to visit the museum once, and I was fascinated that a Montana mountain logger found its way to the flatlands of north central Illinois.

Great brief, and keep up the good work! Hope to get back someday.

Scott

shawsinoly@aol.com

> 1. Of the entire steam collection, how and
> why was the Frisco decapod chosen as the
> "daily runner"?

I believe the reason is simply that 1630 was the first large steam engine IRM acquired, back in 1967. At the time, the Shay was already running, and I believe that Tuskeegee 101 was also in operation; but the Museum wanted a large, mainline locomotive in operation and 1630 fit the bill. It was made operational in the early 1970's and has operated since then. At the time it may have seemed like overkill (I think IRM's line back then was about 1.5 miles long) but since then the 1630 has been a consistent, popular and useful runner.

> 2. How did the J. Neils Lumber Co. Shay come
> to the IRM? I've only had the privilege to
> visit the museum once, and I was fascinated
> that a Montana mountain logger found its way
> to the flatlands of north central Illinois.

I'm not sure how it got to IRM physically - I would guess by flatcar, but I'm not sure - but I believe the locomotive was owned by Elliott Donnelly before IRM. As far as I know, it was donated to the Museum by him. Shay 5 was the first steam engine to operate at IRM.

Frank Hicks

Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars
F-Hicks@wiu.edu

> Fair enough Dave, and all. As for potential
> places for a Lehigh GP how about URHS, ARHS,
> RMNE, or the museum in Rush, NY?

> I don't think the SW-8 at SNHS runs anymore
> though.

Joshua, you are correct-needs a power assembly and a few other items.


superheater@rrmail.com

> I'm not sure how it got to IRM physically -
> I would guess by flatcar, but I'm not sure -
> but I believe the locomotive was owned by
> Elliott Donnelly before IRM. As far as I
> know, it was donated to the Museum by him.
> Shay 5 was the first steam engine to operate
> at IRM.

J. David Conrad's book says that Elliott Donnelley acquired the Shay in 1964. It then moved rather quickly through Hill City, SD, and North Freedom, WI, to get to Union in 1965. Listed as donated 8/69 to IRM.

Elliott Donnelley reportedly supported IRM in several ways. Also Mr. Donnelley gifted the 3' gauge 3-truck Shay to LaPorte County Historical Steam Society of Hesston, Indiania.

Brian Norden

> there would be two positives and one
> negative. One positive would be for the
> headlight bulb which whould go to the
> on/off/dim switch in the cab. The other
> positive would go to the lamp or lamps
> lighting the numberboards.This would be hard
> wired with no switch, and in many cases with
> no fuse so that the number boards were
> always on when the dynamo was operating,
> like the class lights which by law had to be
> unswitched and unfused. Both lamps would
> share the common ground (negative)
An addenda to this post: I received an e-mail concerning the remark about the unswitched and unfused class lights. I was basing my information on information in the ICS steam locomotive Home Study Course, reprinted by the Little River Press. On p. 62 and 63 of the Locomotive Headlights volume, paragraph 102 reads: "....the headlight and back-up lamp are on one fuse and the other lamps are on the other fuse, except for the classification lamps, which are not fused. Classification lghts must always show when a train in road service is moving." Paragraph 105 reads: "...The classification lamps, however, are outside the fuses so that in through service the locomotive may never run without them. A short circuit in the wires to these lights may require lying over until it can be found and remedied. "

After looking through a few railfan books it seems that many locomotives carried unlit class lights on regularly schedules runs in the 40's and 50's . I was wondering if anyone could shed further light on this: What were the requirements for class lights on regularly scheduled trains? What aspect did they show or could they be on the locomotive and be unlit? Were these lamps on a switch?
Any information would be appreciated.

Ed


eselinsky@new.rr.com

Frank and all,

After reading the 50th anniversary story I was surprised to see the Illinois Central 201 on outside dispaly. The museum paid a whole lot of money for her!

I believe he is only one of two such commuter steam locomotives in the US. Ther other is a 2-6-2 built for operation in Oakland, CA and is now a pile of paoeces slated for display at the California Railroad Museum's Central Pacific Shops Building where she was built.

Are there plans to take her indoors any time soon?

Ted Miles


ted_miles@nps.gov

Some more comments - The Shay did arrive on a flatcar and somewhere along the line had been converted to an oilburner. When it arrived, in my skinnier days, I got nominated to squeeze into the firebox and start picking out the refractory brick with an eye toward reinstalling grates. It was very cold on a winter day, and DARK in there!

The IC 201 would be a good candidate for indoor storage, as would so many other pieces of equipment in the IRM collection. While we have perhaps half of the goodies inside, (SEVEN MAJOR BUILDINGS plus a STEAM SHOP) it is really a question of time and money to erect more buildings. The 201 has been outdoors for many years, perhaps decades since it left storage in Markham shops, and at Union it has proven to be a popular display and turned into a Kodak moment for many families and visitors.

The knock against inside storage is poor lighting, and no clear sightlines for good photos from a variety of angles. This dinky little teakettle make quite a contrast to the UP 18 (turbine) sitting two tracks away!

Bob Kutella

68trolley@comcast.net

I was at the Black Hills Central shortly after high school graduation in 1964, and I've always remembered seeing two Shays there. I knew one was the narrow gauge Oregon Lumber engine now at Hesston, Indiana, but couldn't figure out the other one until this thread. It was the J. Neils 5, now at IRM. It must have only been at Hill City briefly before moving to Illinois. A longtime question answered - what would we do without the internet?

http://www.hesston.org/Hesston_Web/shay.htm
ryarger@rypn.org

> I know there are a lot of IRM folks who post
> here, and the brief reminded me of a couple
> of questions I had. Thanks in advance for
> the answers.

> 1. Of the entire steam collection, how and
> why was the Frisco decapod chosen as the
> "daily runner"?

It doesn't look like J. David is going to answer, so I'll take a stab at this:

At the time, IRM was operating under Illinois State boiler code, which required ASME code boilers. The Shay and the Com Ed 0-6-0 both were built for industrial concerns, and had code stamped boilers, but none of the "real railroad" locomotives did. The one exception to the rule was a non-code boiler that had operated in the state previous to the enactment of the law could continue to be operated in the state. IRM had documentation that the 1630 had originaly been assigned to PRR Lines West by the USRA, and therefore operated into Chicago, and the state agreed to certify the boiler for operation.

Of course, all this is moot under the current FRA regulation.

Dennis Storzek

dstorzek@elnet.com

> I believe he is only one of two such
> commuter steam locomotives in the US. Ther
> other is a 2-6-2 built for operation in
> Oakland, CA and is now a pile of paoeces
> slated for display at the California
> Railroad Museum's Central Pacific Shops
> Building where she was built.

Can we count the GTR/CNR 4-6-4T's built for commuter service? One is in Scranton, Pa., after all.......... and one could argue that the PRR/LIRR G5's were built for commuter service.....

SteamLocomotive.info listing

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

In answer to your question, the SP 1912 ran in the streets of Oakland, then was replaced with electric street cars. Did the engine in your post run in the street?

And I have recalled another one since my post; the Steam dummy SP12 at Traveltown was also a street engine. Also built in the 1880s.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

Dear Dennis:
Alright, you have my attention (I don't live on the net like some folks do).
You are correct, we parlayed an origional PRR-Lines West form 4 into an agreement with the state to allow operation under state inspection. I might note that the decision to work on 1630 rather than something else was due to the fact that when I started working on it-1969-the only other steam locomotives on the property were the Shay and an 0-6-0ST. Vitually nothing had been done on the 1630 since it's arrival at IRM and no one was working on it. As we all know, every steam locomotive needs a friend, so I took it on as a long term project. A number of people helped to get it inspected and fired up for testing in 1972, noteably J.M.Hebda, the late Henry W. Becker, John Scott, Kirk Gustafson, Steve Diedrich, Mark Secco, Phil Hehn and others. I would note that at that time I was teaching in Chicago Public Schools and used up my entire years allotment of sick and personal business days in one month so we could have it running for Members Day 1972 (see photo in Pete Schmidt's artical). One day after the event I was at work and encountered our principal in hall who greeted me by saying: "Oh, Mr. Conrad, so nice of you to drop by for a visit".
J.David

jdconrad@snet.net