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| Big Alice, the goon https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8315 |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Big Alice, the goon |
CB&Q 4-6-4 4000, used as Zephyr protection in the 1930s. Destreamlined, it is on display at LaCrosse, Wisconsin. http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?june03/06-18-03/CB+Q_4000.jpg ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Alice, the goon - another |
http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?june03/06-20-03/cbq4000.jpg ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | WP&Ymike [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Zephyr protection ? *NM* |
mike211@yknet.ca |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zephyr protection ? |
It was used when the actual Zephyr streamliner had some type of problem and couldn't operate. I've seen photos of both heavyweight and streamlined cars used as a "protection" consist behind Big Alice. Boyd bowens@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Don C. [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Diesels West |
> It was used when the actual Zephyr > streamliner had some type of problem and > couldn't operate. > I've seen photos of both heavyweight and > streamlined cars used as a > "protection" consist behind Big > Alice. > Boyd 4000 and 4001 were streamlined and used for "Zephyr" protection until the E5s came and there was a sufficient number of diesels to protect the Twin and Denver Zephyr in the event of shovelnose failure or scheduled maintenance. If you read "Diesels West" by David P. Morgan, he relates a story of the 4000 operating from Minneapolis to Chicago on the Morning Zephyr, spending less than an hour in the enginehouse and then being dispatched west on the Denver Zephyr to Denver. The "Burlington Bulletin" of several years ago on the S-4 Hudsons makes for good reading and relates the abilities of these fine locomotives. I believe that copies are still available through the Burlington Route Historical Society. Don C. http://www.261.com milw261@sbcglobal.net |
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| Author: | John E. McNamara [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Keeper of the Winds |
I have always enjoyed the naming of 4000, Aeolus. In Greek mythology, Aeolus was the "keeper of the winds." A great name for a locomotive that served as protection for the Zephyrs! mcnamara@theworld.com |
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| Author: | WP&Ymike [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Zephyr "protection" |
> 4000 and 4001 were streamlined and used for > "Zephyr" protection until the E5s > came and there was a sufficient number of > diesels to protect the Twin and Denver > Zephyr in the event of shovelnose failure or > scheduled maintenance. Ah, now I understand. It was the unusual use of the word "protection" that caused confusion. In today's world we would probably call that "back-up", rather than "protection". mike211@yknet.ca |
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| Author: | Don Fisher [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zephyr protection ? |
Hi Mike, I don’t know about that, here on Long Island, the LIRR diesel engines kept in reserve/ready to “save” trains that have malfunctioned or run into environmental problems, (read snow banks and flooded rails), are still called “protect engines.” During the August 2003 Northeast Blackout, the scanner channels were alive with “protect engines” running around the system pulling electric passenger trains into the stations. Living history on Long Island? I wonder. What do you folks call the reserve/ready engines in your part of the world? Do your scenic/historic railroads keep a reserve piece for “saves” or do you contract with a “class 1” or shortline to do your towing? Just curious. THX de Don, N2QHV http://www.rmli.org n2qhv@arrl.net |
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| Author: | Richard [ Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Alice, the goon |
I wonder if we'll ever have the pleasure o seeing "Alice" stretch her legs again? Carry that one step further, if she was rebuilt for excursions, wouldn't she be slick wearing rebuilt shrouding? Any thought about reviving #4000? glueck@maine.edu |
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| Author: | Dan Cupper [ Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zephyr protection and use of term "protect" |
>> > Living history on Long Island? I wonder. > What do you folks call the reserve/ready > engines in your part of the world? Do your > scenic/historic railroads keep a reserve > piece for “saves” or do you contract with a > “class 1” or shortline to do your towing? >> de Don, N2QHV On Amtrak in some parts of the NEC, they're still called protect engines and protect crews. The pronunciation is slightly altered from conventional speech patterns -- the emphasis is on the first syllable, and the letter "o" is deliberately sounded as a long O, as in "glow" or "crow." So it comes out as PRO'-tect. I don't know for sure if this is an old PRR custom handed down, but I suspect that it is. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. cupper@att.net |
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| Author: | Kevin Gillespie [ Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Alice, the goon |
> I wonder if we'll ever have the pleasure o > seeing "Alice" stretch her legs > again? Carry that one step further, if she > was rebuilt for excursions, wouldn't she be > slick wearing rebuilt shrouding? > Any thought about reviving #4000? If she is ever rebuilt, I hope they will leave her as she is. That shroud was hideous, and I'm glad the Burlington did its patriotic duty and used the metal for the wartime scrap drive. However, I think the most likely rebuild prospect for a CB&Q 4-6-4 would be #3007 at the Illinois Railway Museum. They have expressed an intention to ultimately restore her, and have the shop facilities to carry it out. I'd love to see her on the head end of the Nebraska Zephyr for a little variety. kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net |
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| Author: | Don C. [ Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Alice, the goon |
> If she is ever rebuilt, I hope they will > leave her as she is. That shroud was > hideous, and I'm glad the Burlington did its > patriotic duty and used the metal for the > wartime scrap drive. > However, I think the most likely rebuild > prospect for a CB&Q 4-6-4 would be #3007 > at the Illinois Railway Museum. They have > expressed an intention to ultimately restore > her, and have the shop facilities to carry > it out. I'd love to see her on the head end > of the Nebraska Zephyr for a little variety. North Star Rail considered CB&Q #4000 before settling on Milwaukee Road #261. I dearly love #261 but having #4000 restored to operation would be a wonderful thing. I stopped by last summer while I was doing some scouting work for the #261 trips from Minneapolis to La Crescent and looked at the cosmetic restoration work being done to her. She should look very nice when it is completed. Now if the City of La Crosse could see fit to erect a shelter over her. Don C. http://www.261.com milw261@sbcglobal.net |
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| Author: | Don Fisher [ Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zephyr protection and use of term "protect" |
Todays Long Island/Northeast snow storm had the Protect Engines out and about. Here's a current photo of a LIRR Protect Engine taken by my friend and RMLI Website Intern, Joe Tischner today. http://www.verbalone.com/trains/LIRR/jan28/protect.jpg www.rmli.org n2qhv@arrl.net |
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| Author: | WP&Ymike [ Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Big Alice, the goon *PIC* |
> CB&Q 4-6-4 4000, used as Zephyr > protection in the 1930s. Destreamlined, it > is on display at LaCrosse, Wisconsin. While I could see how "Aeolus" became Big Alice, "the goon" part didn't make sense so I searched out the whole story. For others who are curious: Big Alice mike211@yknet.ca |
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| Author: | Phil Mulligan [ Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zephyr protection ? |
Initially the two Denver Zephyr and Twin Zephyr (II) trains had one set of shovel-nose locomotives each with no spare. So CB&Q fixed up two 4-6-4's to fill in when the diesels were not available. I do have a question for the Chicagoland types: when they were not on the road as demonstrators, did the EMC 511-512 box cabs serve as protect power for the Winton 201A operators based in Chicago? Electric City Trolley Museum Association |
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