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| Mid-Continent may get Copper Range 4-6-0 29 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8902 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mid-Continent may get Copper Range 4-6-0 29 |
From Trains Magazine Newswire today: NORTH FREEDOM, Wis. – Copper Range 2-8-0 29, which has been slumbering for the past three decades in Hancock, Mich., has been offered to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, if the necessary funds to move it from Hancock, in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, to North Freedom can be raised. If the move can be made, the locomotive would join two Copper Range wooden passenger cars already owned by the museum: combine 25, which was acquired in 1963, and coach 60, which was just restored by volunteers last year. The Copper Range Railroad shut down in 1972. The 29 was built by American Locomotive Co. in February 1907 and was used in freight and passenger service until it was retired in 1953. It was stored in the railroad’s roundhouse at Houghton, Mich., until 1967 when it was sold to Keweenaw Central Railroad, a short-lived tourist operation based out of Calumet, Mich., that used Copper Range track for part of its route. The abandonment of the Copper Range forced the Keweenaw Central to cease operations and move its equipment. The 4-6-0 was moved to nearby Hancock, where it has been stored ever since, along with other privately owned engines and cars. The locomotive, according to museum personnel, is for the most part complete, but since it has been outdoors, it has deteriorated significantly. Fund-raising has begun and must be completed by April 30 for Mid-Continent to cover the costs associated with the loading, transportation via semi-truck, and off-loading of the locomotive. It is anticipated the locomotive would arrive at North Freedom by June. For more information on the locomotive and the fund drive, visit the Mid-Continent Railway Museum website. MCRM website LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mid-Continent may get 2-8-0 29 |
> From Trains Magazine Newswire today: > NORTH FREEDOM, Wis. – Copper Range 2-8-0 29, > which has been slumbering for the past three > decades in Hancock, Mich., has been offered > to the Mid-Continent Railway Museum, if the > necessary funds to move it from Hancock, in > Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, to North Freedom > can be raised. If the move can be made, the > locomotive would join two Copper Range > wooden passenger cars already owned by the > museum: combine 25, which was acquired in > 1963, and coach 60, which was just restored > by volunteers last year. The Copper Range > Railroad shut down in 1972. > The 29 was built by American Locomotive Co. > in February 1907 and was used in freight and > passenger service until it was retired in > 1953. It was stored in the railroad’s > roundhouse at Houghton, Mich., until 1967 > when it was sold to Keweenaw Central > Railroad, a short-lived tourist operation > based out of Calumet, Mich., that used > Copper Range track for part of its route. > The abandonment of the Copper Range forced > the Keweenaw Central to cease operations and > move its equipment. The 4-6-0 was moved to > nearby Hancock, where it has been stored > ever since, along with other privately owned > engines and cars. > The locomotive, according to museum > personnel, is for the most part complete, > but since it has been outdoors, it has > deteriorated significantly. Fund-raising has > begun and must be completed by April 30 for > Mid-Continent to cover the costs associated > with the loading, transportation via > semi-truck, and off-loading of the > locomotive. It is anticipated the locomotive > would arrive at North Freedom by June. > For more information on the locomotive and > the fund drive, visit the Mid-Continent > Railway Museum website. For the record, Copper Range 29 IS a 2-8-0, as mentioned once in the text, and NOT a 4-6-0. Also, it is one of the surviving locomotives that was pictured in Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg's famous book, "Mixed Train Daily." midlandblb@cs.com |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | The 4-6-0 |
The 4-6-0 is former C&NW 175, owned by the same person as the 29 last I knew. It made the railroad's last steam trip, an excursion in 1957, was displayed at Winona, MN for a time, then acquired and taken to the U.P. of Michigan, where it still sat last I knew. When I last saw a photo of the 175, it had a tender from what looked like an NP 4-6-0. I don't know if its proper C&NW tender has survived or not. ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Handsome Devil [ Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 4-6-0 |
> The 4-6-0 is former C&NW 175, Went for a drive up there 2 years ago in April,2002 to look at the #175. Had never seen her and just wanted to see what was left of her. I like CNW steam, what litte is left. The cab must be completely fallen off by now, not much more then some pattern material left when I was there. Overall I thought it didn't look to bad as it had it's boiler shell painted not to long ago and had weathered better then I thought it would of. The climate up at Houghton/Hancock is pretty tough on things left outside. I kind of thought the Copper Range was the sad looking one. What I could see of the boiler/firebox scared me. Cosmetic display possiblities, but to get running I think would take just about as much money as the K4 has. I didn't stay as long as I would of liked, winter up there lasts a long time. Poked around to see how bad the deterioration was, took some pictures and went over and looked at the mining museum down the road. The drifts in late April were still 6 ft high, and you would drop down to your crotch when you broke through in places. The UP is a real unique area and as I said it is hard on anything left outside. The cosmetic condition of the Torch Lake engines {dont' recall the numbers 2-6-0 & 2-8-0} could make a grown man cry. If I had a way to scan and post the pictures I would. Regards, John. springfield@tds.net |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 2-8-0 over the Ten-Wheeler? |
> Went for a drive up there 2 years ago in > April,2002 to look at the #175. Had never > seen her and just wanted to see what was > left of her. I like CNW steam, what litte is > left. The cab must be completely fallen off > by now, not much more then some pattern > material left when I was there. Overall I > thought it didn't look to bad as it had it's > boiler shell painted not to long ago and had > weathered better then I thought it would of. > The climate up at Houghton/Hancock is pretty > tough on things left outside. I kind of > thought the Copper Range was the sad looking > one. What I could see of the boiler/firebox > scared me. Cosmetic display possiblities, > but to get running I think would take just > about as much money as the K4 has. I didn't > stay as long as I would of liked, winter up > there lasts a long time. Poked around to see > how bad the deterioration was, took some > pictures and went over and looked at the > mining museum down the road. The drifts in > late April were still 6 ft high, and you > would drop down to your crotch when you > broke through in places. The UP is a real > unique area and as I said it is hard on > anything left outside. The cosmetic > condition of the Torch Lake engines {dont' > recall the numbers 2-6-0 & 2-8-0} could > make a grown man cry. If I had a way to scan > and post the pictures I would. Regards, > John. Kind of surprising that Mid-Continnt didn't try to acquire the 175 rather than the 29. The 175 has ties to Wisconsin whereas the 29, from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, doesn't. This would have given the group two nearly identical engines which might help the group keep one in steam (the 175 does have piston valves rather than slide valves as on Mid-Continents C&NW 4-6-0 # 1385.) Perhaps the price for the 175 was greater or the owner has other plans for her. I realize that the group has a couple of pieces of Copper Range equipment but then there is other equipment up there that does not have a "companion" locomotive for it. Whatever the reason for acquiring the 29 and not the 175, I wish Mid-Continent well with their new acquisition. Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, IN) midlandblb@cs.com |
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| Author: | Bob Yarger [ Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | R-1 valves |
Actually both types of C&NW R-1s had piston valves, but most had Stevenson valve gear (like 1385 and 444), with sloping cylinders. The Rutland had some 4-6-0s apparently built from the same blueprints, differing only in having a slanting throat sheet on the firebox where the C&NW engines throat sheet was vertical. http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?august03/08-10-03/CNW0044_00003038.jpg ryarger@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 2-8-0 over the Ten-Wheeler? |
Les, I think that the reason that Mid-Continent is going for the 2-8-0 is two fold. They already have a C&NW engine which is a 4-6-0. Second another wheel arrangement, especially a common one like the 2-8-0 will look good as a static engine. I think that the Copper Range 29, will be a static display for a lot of years. Looking at the two steam sites of the Mid-Continent Museum they have their hands full, and then some, before they will have a steam engine pulling trains again! But as you said, best of luck to them. Ted Miles |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 4-6-0 |
C&NW 175 is still owned by Clint Jones, who owns the Copper Range #29. #175's original tender is long gone, but Mid-Continent just happens to have a spare R-1 tender... A conversation with a semi-reliable source this weekend added a few details of this transaction, most of which I can't post here for various reasons, but, the 175 MIGHT be heading for WI soon also... As a side note, 175 was supposed to be at Mid-Continent at one time, it was even listed in their official roster at one point, but it never made it there for reasons I unfortunately can't post here... Boyd bowens@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 2-8-0 over the Ten-Wheeler? *PIC* |
Mid-Continent's primary interest in the 29 is to have a complete (although short) Copper Range trainset. Both of their Copper Range passenger cars (a combine and a coach) have already been restored, and just need a CR loco to pull them... Granted, it will be quite some time before the 29 steams again, but it'll make a nice looking static display in the meantime... Boyd  bowens@rypn.org |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The transaction details |
I have recieved a couple of e-mails asking about the details of this transaction. Unfortunately I can't share any more info on- or off-line, sorry. There are a couple of reasons for this, #1 - I can't speak officially for Mid-Continent, Mr. Jones, or the other parties involved, and #2 - As this information is not general public knowledge, it could be detremental to the successful completion of the transaction. I hope everyone understands, just be assured that if all goes well, the results will be good for the railway preservation community. Boyd bowens@rypn.org |
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| Author: | T.J. Gaffney [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The transaction details |
Boyd- Please email me offline if possible. I understand your reasonings for not talking about the details, but I also believe that those details are vital to the community as a whole. With respect to the parties involved I will stop there. TJ > I have recieved a couple of e-mails asking > about the details of this transaction. > Unfortunately I can't share any more info > on- or off-line, sorry. > There are a couple of reasons for this, #1 - > I can't speak officially for Mid-Continent, > Mr. Jones, or the other parties involved, > and #2 - As this information is not general > public knowledge, it could be detremental to > the successful completion of the > transaction. > I hope everyone understands, just be assured > that if all goes well, the results will be > good for the railway preservation community. > Boyd tjgaffney@phmuseum.org |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 2-8-0 over the Ten-Wheeler? |
> Les, > I think that the reason that Mid-Continent > is going for the 2-8-0 is two fold. They > already have a C&NW engine which is a > 4-6-0. > Second another wheel arrangement, especially > a common one like the 2-8-0 will look good > as a static engine. I think that the Copper > Range 29, will be a static display for a lot > of years. Ted: Thanks for your comments. Just for the record, Mid-Continent owns at least three other 2-8-0 Consolidations; Green Bay & Western # 350 (originally # 49), Union Pacific # 440 and Lake Superior & Ishpeming # 22. No, I don't think that Copper Range # 29 was selected because she was a Consolidation but almost certainly, because she gives the museum a "complete" Copper Range train set. > Looking at the two steam sites of the > Mid-Continent Museum they have their hands > full, and then some, before they will have a > steam engine pulling trains again! It appears as if you are right. > But as you said, best of luck to them. > Ted Miles midlandblb@cs.com |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Tue May 04, 2004 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mid-Continent and Copper Range #29 Update |
Mid-Continent successfully raised the funds needed to move Copper Range #29 to North Freedom. See link below. Boyd Copper Range 29 bowens@rypn.org |
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| Author: | L Beckman [ Wed May 05, 2004 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mid-Continent and Copper Range #29 Update |
> Mid-Continent successfully raised the funds > needed to move Copper Range #29 to North > Freedom. See link below. > Boyd Boyd: I am glad that Mid-Continent has been successful in their efforts to see that # 29 is going to be preserved. I checked the website and didn't see any reference to the approximate costs to: a. purchase the locomotive, and b. move the locomotive to North Freedom. Any chance we could get, at least, some "ball park" figures? Thanks. Les Beckman (HVRM) midlandblb@cs.com |
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| Author: | Boyd Owens [ Wed May 05, 2004 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mid-Continent and Copper Range #29 Update |
At this time I don't know the amount of money raised, but I do know that it all is for the movement of the locomotive and tender. The locomotive was given to Mid-Continent by Clint Jones at no financial cost to the museum. They just have to move it themselves. I'll do a follow-up post when I find out the moving costs. Boyd bowens@rypn.org |
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