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Hagerstown M-1b tender?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=899		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Richard [ Sun Nov 28, 1999 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Hagerstown M-1b tender?
<P>30 years ago I saw a Pennsy M-1b tender being used to store fuel oil in Hagerstown, Maryland. THis was during an excursion run with the 1286 and 1238 CPR Pacifics. I took a photo of the Pennsy tender and noted that it still had it's builder's plate on it and it was still painted in black and gold. I submitted that picture to Model Railroader magazine where itwas published. Shortly thereafter, I am told the tender disappeared. Does anyone know where it went? Have any of the work train tenders been saved for display or restoration?<br>




aurora7@juno.com
Author:  H Pincus [ Mon Nov 29, 1999 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
<P>I think this tender is the one the Western NY RY Historical Soc. folks have obtained , to go with the PRR I-1 2-10-0. Most of the I-1s finished their days with the so-called "coast-to-coast" tenders.<br>
Author:  Tom Gears [ Mon Nov 29, 1999 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
<P>This tender is the one that is now upstate in NY. It went there via the Wilmington and Western. Somehow it was donated to W&W in the early 1980's and then sold off about 1985. I know this first hand as I was the one who did the brake test with the Chessie folks when it shipped out.<br>
Author:  Joe Kocsis [ Mon Nov 29, 1999 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
<P>The "coast-to-coast" tender was purchased from the W&W in 1985 to eventually be mated with the I-1 #4483. We purchased the tender as the smaller 90F82 class tender that is with the engine now was totally gutted by WABCO while the engine was on display at the Wilmerding plant. They gutted the tender to allow for telephone switching gear to be placed in the tender. <p>The tender is currently stored on the Buffalo Southern RR in North Collins, NY.




[url=http:\www.wnyrhs.com]WNY Ry Historical Society[/url]
Heritage_ltd@msn.com
Author:  gcrr [ Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I thought it might be cleaner than tacking on to the current T1 thread.

Anyway, I've been trying to research the history of the long-haul tender that the T1 Trust has acquired from the WNYRHS but I've come up a bit empty handed. That thing is huge, so using it in MOW service seems a little far-fetched. According to this old thread it was used to store fuel oil. There's another photo of it (or a sister tender) looking like it might have been converted to a caboose???
Image
Author:  Chris Webster [ Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
I grew up in a NYC town and do not know much about PRR steam, but I happened to see this $6,1999 model of Q2 4-4-6-4 #6175 on ebay:

O Scale Katsumi Models KTM 4-4-6-4 Altoona Works Class Q2 Steam Engine PRR #6175

The model's tender appears to match the prototype photo you posted, so perhaps that tender once belonged to a Q2?
Author:  PMC [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
gcrr wrote:
There's another photo of it (or a sister tender) looking like it might have been converted to a caboose???

I believe that thing you think is a caboose conversion is actually a "doghouse", a place for the fireman to shelter from the elements on freight engines with those big tenders. The T1 tenders didn't have that structure, and I recall reading that the reason is because a fireman could shelter on a passenger car, but don't quote me on it.
Author:  Trainlawyer [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
I think you mean the head brakeman rather than the fireman.

GME
Author:  PMC [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
Trainlawyer wrote:
I think you mean the head brakeman rather than the fireman.

GME

That makes more sense. Most of what I know about it is from a discussion on the T1 group's facebook page, they will be removing the doghouse that remains on their recycled tender.
Author:  jayrod [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
First - not a Pennsy expert. While recently cataloging PRR shop drawings, what I have gleaned is if the T1 Trust’s tender is from an M1b and is a class 210 F 75b, (21k gallons, F for freight, 75” deck, b for LT Stoker) it’s larger than what a T1 would have had which was the 180 P 84 (18k gallons, P for passenger, 84” deck). A few of the M1 and M1a class wound up with giant sized 250 P 75 tenders. Not to be out done, the I1sa class had 250 F 82 tenders.

Thanks to standardized connections and depending on the type of stoker, these tenders could be swapped around between some locomotive classes.

If I misconstrued anything, please correct.

[Edit] revised above to 210 F 75b. Was trying to type too fast on my iPad and missed the “5” twice.
Author:  wesp [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
A photo of the tender for the new T1 has the tender number 6659 class 210 F 75a.

Wesley
Author:  jayrod [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
I just found a handy list of tender classes that has a bit of info included: http://www.wsbcos.com/tenders.htm. The 210 F 75a had a welded tank.
Author:  Ed Kapuscinski [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
It's nice to see the T1 trust actually preserving something historic.

Hopefully not too much historic fabric is destroyed while adapting it to its new Lionel Lines configuration.
Author:  jayrod [ Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
It's nice to see the T1 trust actually preserving something historic.

Hopefully not too much historic fabric is destroyed while adapting it to its new Lionel Lines configuration.

Yeah, they’re gonna hafta dress it up to make it passable as a “P” tender.
Author:  K.R. Bell [ Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hagerstown M-1b tender?
We have the original Historical Record Cards for most individual 20th c. PRR steam locomotives and tenders (as well as PRR freight, passenger and MOW equipment) in MG-286 Penn Central Railroad Collection, that gives a lot of basic history for each piece, built dates, modifications, betterments, rebuilds with dates, assignments, scrapping dates, etc.

If somebody can confirm that the T-1 Trust's M1b tender was originally numbered 6659 and was PRR class 210 F 75a, I'll scan the card and post it herewith.

K.R. Bell
Railroad Collections Archivist II
Pennsylvania State Archives (PHMC)
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