According to two links in flimsies, the Steamtown National Historic Site's Comprehensive Interpretive Plan governing the next five to seven years was introduced to stakeholders and guests this past Wednesday, June 23rd. Was anybody there to hear the presentation firsthand?

From the Citizens Voice article, it appears as though Steamtown NHS has a new way of tabulating train riders! "So far this season, we've almost doubled the amount of visitors riding trains. Since we've introduced more trains rides like the caboose and handcar, more than 600 people have jumped on and taken train rides since Memorial Day weekend." Whoopie, pickle!

Get ready, folks. The numbers will be way up for the number of train riders this year--with only a handful of them being mainline excursion riders. The handwriting is on the wall. If you want to see mainline steam perform as it was meant to at Steamtown, be sure to get there for the few excursions scheduled on the Pocono Main this year.
It may be your last chance!

fred.gracebailey@earthlink.net

> According to two links in flimsies, the
> Steamtown National Historic Site's
> Comprehensive Interpretive Plan governing
> the next five to seven years was introduced
> to stakeholders and guests this past
> Wednesday, June 23rd. Was anybody there to
> hear the presentation firsthand?

Its been out for months..nicely bound, spending $$
that should have been spent on the engines or Mattes Street Tower .. or hey, how about letting the employees be employed year-round?

One of my friends said it best. They were supposed to have a designated driver and they decided to have a designated decoy instead.

> From the Citizens Voice article, it appears
> as though Steamtown NHS has a new way of
> tabulating train riders! "So far this
> season, we've almost doubled the amount of
> visitors riding trains. Since we've
> introduced more trains rides like the
> caboose and handcar, more than 600 people
> have jumped on and taken train rides since
> Memorial Day weekend." Whoopie, pickle!

Leave it to the federal government to find a new way to count riders-so are all these extra riders plunking down cash?

> Get ready, folks. The numbers will be way up
> for the number of train riders this
> year--with only a handful of them being
> mainline excursion riders. The handwriting
> is on the wall. If you want to see mainline
> steam perform as it was meant to at
> Steamtown, be sure to get there for the few
> excursions scheduled on the Pocono Main this
> year.
> It may be your last chance!

The dark side, the static museum types and the "i don't want to be bothered" types have joined forces and the fix is in...

Too bad all the ineffective management aren't furloghed annually.

I could be wrong, but don't bet on it.


voxverum@yahoo.com

Hello All...

Not defending Steamtown per say, but the concept of a CIP isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think many museums need to look inward, decide what works, what doesn't, what they need to accomplish etc...

I haven't read the CIP myself. I talked to many people when it was being developed though. Seems Steamtown wisely included many of the "partners" in the process, as well as many outside sources. Very few were complimentary to the site or its operation during the process, but I don't know if this was whitewashed in the final report or not, as I said, I haven't seen it.

The reports this week (Scranton Times had a similar report, both extrapolated from NPS press releases) made quite a few of us scratch our heads. The reports of course were glowing, but disjointed and full of inaccuracies. They even mentioned running excursions to Montage at one point. Not sure how the 3254 would fare in the Crown Ave Tunnel.

Speaking of the 3254, the wheels are back under it, and the race is on to finish it in time for this weekend's trips.
All the foolishness aside, the Tobyhanna trips are the best value of any Steamtown trip, you get some decent mainline running, a nice destination and some nice scenery along the way. Get out and ride those if you can.
There will be another big press release from Steamtown in the coming week or so. I inadvertently picked up on something from an outside source, but I'm staying away from saying anything as of yet.
Dave Crosby



bing@epix.net

I can't see them getting rid of the excursions all together, that may be wishful thinking though, who knows? From what i'm getting from the article is that they are trying to improve what works and do whatÂ’s best, excursions or not. There was also mention of going to Luzerne County, south of Scranton as well.

"The superintendent said negotiations are under way to expand train excursions to new stops such as Gouldsboro and Moscow to enhance the Heritage Valley Station Stops initiative, one component of the plan" (Scranton Times). So dose this mean that excursions to Moscow will return?

It is good to see that they are saying that more rolling stock will be restored and hopefully that means locomotives. From what I am seeing at the Steamtown website is that 2006 - 2007 is the long term plan to have the 3713 running, that seems fairly reasonable. And it would be good to show progress that things are being done, With the tenth Anniversary around the bend, Scranton may become the place to be in the Summer of '05

From what I am seeing though is that things are working at Steamtown. There are many questions that are being asked, and will be ansered in the coming days and months that will tell what is in store for Steamtown in the years to come.

-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

> Hello All...

> Not defending Steamtown per say, but the
> concept of a CIP isn't necessarily a bad
> thing. I think many museums need to look
> inward, decide what works, what doesn't,
> what they need to accomplish etc...

> I haven't read the CIP myself. I talked to
> many people when it was being developed
> though. Seems Steamtown wisely included many
> of the "partners" in the process,
> as well as many outside sources. Very few
> were complimentary to the site or its
> operation during the process, but I don't
> know if this was whitewashed in the final
> report or not, as I said, I haven't seen it.

> The reports this week (Scranton Times had a
> similar report, both extrapolated from NPS
> press releases) made quite a few of us
> scratch our heads. The reports of course
> were glowing, but disjointed and full of
> inaccuracies. They even mentioned running
> excursions to Montage at one point. Not sure
> how the 3254 would fare in the Crown Ave
> Tunnel.

> Speaking of the 3254, the wheels are back
> under it, and the race is on to finish it in
> time for this weekend's trips.
> All the foolishness aside, the Tobyhanna
> trips are the best value of any Steamtown
> trip, you get some decent mainline running,
> a nice destination and some nice scenery
> along the way. Get out and ride those if you
> can.
> There will be another big press release from
> Steamtown in the coming week or so. I
> inadvertently picked up on something from an
> outside source, but I'm staying away from
> saying anything as of yet.
> Dave Crosby

Dave, the problem with Steamtown's and the NPS's idea of partnerships is that they think that ok, we are the federal government and we call the shots. Its like you should be glad to be with us or something and they forget other parties have to make a buck or at least break even.



voxverum@yahoo.com

In my view, what's needed in terms of rolling stock restoration is not full restoration of locomotives but rolling stock. There are many noteworthy pieces sitting in the yard that need attention. Some off the top of my head- DL&W milk car, MOW troop sleeper, D&H flanger etc. Cosmetic restorations on some locomotives should be considered as well- DL&W mogul, NKP engine, fireless engine. Of course abating asbestos is not cheap (not an issue with DL&W #565).

Joshua

> Not defending Steamtown per say, but the
> concept of a CIP isn't necessarily a bad
> thing. I think many museums need to look
> inward, decide what works, what doesn't,
> what they need to accomplish etc...

I don't think anyone is questioning the concept of a CIP. It's something that Steamtown has sorely lacked since the days of F. Nelson Blount. That's not to say that Steamtowm didn't try during its earlier years because there were several "Master Plans" over the years. The book "The Man From Steamtown" contains an artist's sketch of Blount's original plan--expected to be completed at a cost of $2 million by 1970! There were several others after that, and each met the same fate: a lack of funding to carry them forward. However, there was always one constant in the plans that remained over the years: the operation of mainline steam in the manner that F. Nelson Blount had envisioned. Working with a very limited budget, Steamtown Foundation was able to keep the mainline excursion program running from mid-1971 through 1987--admittedly with a few bumps along the way.

Now, the NPS comes along with a plan which seemingly takes the constant all but out of the picture. Perhaps they have realized something that all previous Steamtown managements never did (i. e. it is too expensive to keep mainline steam alive today). On the other hand, they may be totally overlooking the one thing that kept Steamtown alive for so many years. Granted, Steamtown didn't have an $80 million dollar facility in Vermont, but when it tried a season there without excursions (1981) patronage dropped drastically--to the point where the Board of Directors almost shut it down permanently.

> I haven't read the CIP myself. I talked to
> many people when it was being developed
> though. Seems Steamtown wisely included many
> of the "partners" in the process,
> as well as many outside sources. Very few
> were complimentary to the site or its
> operation during the process, but I don't
> know if this was whitewashed in the final
> report or not, as I said, I haven't seen it.

Yes, it is wise to consider the views of "partners" and outside consultants in developing the CIP. If indeed very few of these folks were complimentary to the site or its operations, it would indicate that the NPS definitely has some problems to work out. The big question is: does the new CIP solve these problems or does it create more?

Now that the CIP is supposedly "public information" (there should be a copy in the Steamtown library for interested parties to look over), let's take a look at it and see what's in store for the future. As we were reminded in another forum recently (in a slightly different wording): Steamtown NHS is America's steam railroad museum, owned by the people of the USA under the stewardship of the National Park Service. It's up to us, the citizens of this great country, to review what the NPS bureaucrats, their partners and consultants have decided as to what the future of Steamtown NHS is going to be. If you don't like what you see in the CIP, now is the time to make your voice heard. Don't wait a couple of years to say "I wish the Steamtown excursions of old were still around".

fred.gracebailey@earthlink.net

...have written your Congressman and Senators, expressing clearly and concisely your support for SNHS and its mainline excursion programs?

If you have not, then I would suggest that you do so. The letters should not flame, or get into jargon-laden railfan issues, or wander around the minutae of SNHS operations. The letters should cite the overall strategic value of the organization, its collection, programs, and people.

Yes, the SNHS professional staff IS an unrealized and under utilized resource for the nation's railroad preservationist community. There is no other similar group in the federal government.

Why there is this persistent carping about what they do and how they do it is beyond me. This seems only to further a widely held belief by many policy makers that regardless of what is done for the railfan community, a large percentage of them will not be happy. "Why then," some ask, "do anything at all?" It is a hard point to counter.

In the meantime, other organizations -- like the rail-trail crowd we love to hate -- move steadily ahead with their agenda. The rail-trail bunch is disciplined, they know how to quietly resolve their differences, and are highly effective when it comes to creating favorable policies. We could learn bunches from them.

Unless RyPN participants begin to get politically active, when all is said and done at SNHS (and many other places), much more will have been said than done.

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

> According to two links in flimsies, the
> Steamtown National Historic Site's
> Comprehensive Interpretive Plan governing
> the next five to seven years was introduced
> to stakeholders and guests this past
> Wednesday, June 23rd. Was anybody there to
> hear the presentation firsthand?

> From the Citizens Voice article, it appears
> as though Steamtown NHS has a new way of
> tabulating train riders! "So far this
> season, we've almost doubled the amount of
> visitors riding trains. Since we've
> introduced more trains rides like the
> caboose and handcar, more than 600 people
> have jumped on and taken train rides since
> Memorial Day weekend." Whoopie, pickle!

> Get ready, folks. The numbers will be way up
> for the number of train riders this
> year--with only a handful of them being
> mainline excursion riders. The handwriting
> is on the wall. If you want to see mainline
> steam perform as it was meant to at
> Steamtown, be sure to get there for the few
> excursions scheduled on the Pocono Main this
> year.
> It may be your last chance!
Electric City trolleys leave from the same station as Steamtown. How have they managed to accomplish so much these past 3 years while Steamtown smoulders?

bas1210@comcast.net

For one thing the people I have met at Steamtown on my few trips there have always been professional, pleasant and helpful. From the Train crew to park rangers and it should be stated that this in not the falt of the people at Steamtown. I feel they are trying the best they can with the givin funds. What the future for excursions is unknown by me, however as i said in a previous post I can't see them getting rid of excusions all together. It's just another page in Steamtowns long and intresting history.

-Justin Franz

qcmrs18@yahoo.com