Has anyone had actual contact with this group about their railway museum. They seem like a 1,000-pound gorilla, with good political connections and clout. What I am trying to get out, is R-t-T good guys or bad guys, from personal experience. Please commente.

jwwjr35@aol.com

> Has anyone had actual contact with this
> group about their railway museum. They seem
> like a 1,000-pound gorilla, with good
> political connections and clout. What I am
> trying to get out, is R-t-T good guys or bad
> guys, from personal experience. Please
> commente.

Are you trying to start another flame war? This topic has been beat to death (IMHO) several times on this board. Most recently on November 3rd in posting thread started by Superheater titled: "And from the darkside...rails to trails puff piece". There have also been a few other, but less active discussion threads, before, and since.

Use the search link at the bottom of this page and play with the search terms. You'll find quite a lot has already been discussed.

brianf425@yahoo.com

> Are you trying to start another flame war?
> This topic has been beat to death (IMHO)
> several times on this board. Most recently
> on November 3rd in posting thread started by
> Superheater titled: "And from the
> darkside...rails to trails puff piece".
> There have also been a few other, but less
> active discussion threads, before, and
> since.
No, I don't even know what a "flame war" is. I had just heard various opinions about R-t-T in the last and wondered if anyone who was involved with contact (this sounds like Star Trek) had any comment.
> Use the search link at the bottom of this
> page and play with the search terms. You'll
> find quite a lot has already been discussed.


jwwjr35@aol.com

> No, I don't even know what a "flame
> war" is. I had just heard various
> opinions about R-t-T in the last and
> wondered if anyone who was involved with
> contact (this sounds like Star Trek) had any
> comment.

A flame war is an angry discussion of a controversial topic. We frown heavily on flame wars here and generally don't allow them to get much of a start.

R-T-T has generated some very heated discussion here in the past--opinions differ to say the least. Brian is right, if you click Search at the top of the Interchange and look for R-T-T you'll find a lot. Here are two threads you can review.

http://64.226.170.141/cgi-bin/Interchange.pl?read=31739

http://64.226.170.141/cgi-bin/Interchange.pl?read=26662


eledbetter@rypn.org

> Are you trying to start another flame war?
> This topic has been beat to death (IMHO)
> several times on this board. Most recently
> on November 3rd in posting thread started by
> Superheater titled: "And from the
> darkside...rails to trails puff piece".
> There have also been a few other, but less
> active discussion threads, before, and
> since.

Not to kick old guano, but I must repeat I was commenting on the journalism, not RTT advocacy-nor was I attempting to start a "flame war". I did title it to be provocative and stimulate thinking about how this relatively new group (RTT) became a ubiquitous "1000 pound gorilla".

This is America-at least for now- and RTT folks are entitled to pursue their interests. I see their interests as directly opposed to mine as person interested RAILROAD preservation- and as such consider them opponents competing for rivalrous assets. Others on this board see it differently.

Nonetheless, I admire RTT groups tenacity and political acumen and lament the relative lack of political acumen in the rail preservation community.

I remain convinced that particular article lacked due journalistic skepticism-accepting assertions of economic benefit on blind faith.

Finally, every time we have a vigorous debate on this board (vigorous debate, not ad hominem attacks, cursing, lying, exaggeration,etc - and this is not directed at Brian-I understand his reticence to revisit the topic) some shreik in horror "flame war" and everybody quietly goes back to talking about lost causes and wishful thinking and other oatmeal bland topics.

My position remains the same. The people who know me-both in person and through offline communication- know I don't pull any punches and don't hold grudges. The "Tea and Crumpets" approach has gotten us steamrolled everytime.

As I see it- with the imminent loss of the ex-DL&W Kinston roundhouse smarting me as I write-we better start learning to fight HARD and EFFECTIVELY-amongst ourselves and in the public square-because too much important stuff is being lost. Fewer and fewer people have a direct connection to railroads and we have no idea how effective or durable the "THOMAS" gateway will be thirty years from now.

Otherwise we risk becoming the village eccentric-the polite old man with antique collection and patches on the elbows of his threadbare sportcoat who is tolerated or worse ignored until one day the mailman notices the letters piling up.



superheater@rrmail.com

If there's one thing I regret not saying differently from my followup post this morning; "This topic has been beat to death (IMHO) several times on this board."

I should have said "This topic has been beat to death to no one's satisfaction." :-)

I used your post as one that I think was the root of a good, and (mostly) reasonable discourse. I think most, if not all, reasonable points of view were covered. However... YMMV (your mileage may vary).

Caveat Emptor... always keep your hand on your wallet... anyone that has all the answers has none... trust no one but yourself, but know your limitations.

brianf425@yahoo.com

I spent last weekend in Raleigh NC and took a few hours off to look in on downtown-area railroad history sites. I had no local guide, so I'm sure I missed a lot, but even so I found plenty to reward a short exploration.

1. The former SAL classical revival depot on the North side of downtown (1940s or 1950s construction) is adaptively reused as a garden center. The platform canopies are still there, and the whole platform area serves as the facilities outdoor selling area. There is a cafe in the depot building. The surrounding former RR-served warehouse district is home to everything from furnature and wine stores to urban ministries. On the north end of the station you'll find a heavyweight Pullman being restored as a PV, and the former SAL yard office, still serving the same function for CSX. On the South end of the station aross the tracks, the former SAL Raleigh roundhouse turntable remains in service, thought the roundhouse itself is long gone. Across the yard to the west you can get a distant look at NSDOT's motive power and passenger equiptment service facility, with ex-CNW B-unit F's, full-length domes, and other interesting rolling stock in the deadlines.

2. The NCRR/SR depot (also neoclassical ca. 1950)west of downtown now serves NCDOT and AMTRAK. The exterior is plain but well kept, and the track-side has been modified--attractively--with a glass-covered waiting and access area. The old SR freight depot (on the downtown side of the Y, across the small yard located within the Y in front of the station) has just been scrubbed and redeveloped to the nines--really nice job--but has no tenant yet. The surrounding warehouse district has become a funky nightclub area, but with lots of old touches of in-street railroad trackage, coal delivery trestles, and other interesting remnants.

3. Southend Brewery on Jones Street--former streetcar pwoer house, attractively converted into a brewpub--located between the former SAL and old NS mainlines on Jones St. west of downtown, near Greewood Ave.

I'm sure this is all old hat to our Carolina friends, but it was new to me, and I was happy to find so much to see. Good contemporary trainwatching too--NS keeps the area busy, and you can often see a local crew pottering around the little flat yard inside the Y adjacent to the Amtrak station.


eledbetter@rypn.org