Even if the frame was/is damaged, between 833 and 838, there should be enough good parts to get another FEF back on the road some time in the (not so near) future.<br>



wowak@usa.net

Locomotives with cast engine beds (frames) have enormous strength and rigidity in the frame- that was why they were such an improvement over the fabricated loco frames. One of the most important items to be concerned with when picking up a steam locomotive is whether or not the pedestal binders are applied (and are tight). Yes, the binders have to be removed to drop the drivers, but if a loco is going to sit on blocks without drivers for any length of time, the binders should be installed. 833 most likely had the binders in place during its lift and move.<br>



hpincus@mindspring.com

Interestingly, I haven't heard much interest in resurrecting another UP FEF. I wonder why?

Yet there will soon be two Santa Fe Northers on the main. (2926 and 3751)

And how many other steamers from the same road sharing the same wheel arrangement? Its a wonder a FEF isn't one of these "repeats".

Probably we already have a more than adequate supply of usable or near usable Northerns available for the relatively few freelance operating opportunities that are not part of the railroad sponsored programs (which make use of their own stables).

dave

The age of this thread has nothing to do with the relevance of my question.

And yes, 2926 unfortunately, does not have a guarantee of operating on the main. But the northern won't be any less operational because of that.

I mean this in the politest way possible.

Why would anyone restore a second ASTF 4-8-4? They had to overcome the same problems you mentioned, after all.

The same could go for a UP FEF. I'm not saying bringing back a FEF is a necessary thing to do, but it's a wonder (At least to me) no one has at least tried.

Thats the only point I'm trying to make.

Surely there has to be a limit on how old is too old. This is a post bringing up a thread from 17 years ago, and it doesn't contribute to the conversation. Mods, what do you think?

I'm such a steam fan failure that I had to Google "FEF" (means Four Eight Four) and "833" to figure out what this discussion is about.
Now that I'm tuned in, I found the post by H. Pincus about durability of cast frames interesting. Question: What are the "binders" he talks about?
I wish I had the time to read the entire Rypn archives. Apparently some good stuff buried in there.
Thanks. Carry on.

Binders form part of the frame on a steam locomotive. They are hefty blocks of steel that get bolted to the frame below a driving box, journal box, etc. and keep the frame from spreading apart.



Here is a photo of a frame, probably for a live steamer or something. Here the frame is upside down, and the binders are the parts that are bolted on.

Excellent. Thank you, Joe!

A search turns up that UP 833 arrived at Utah State Ry Museum from Pioneer Park in Salt Lake City on February 21,1999 (verify). Perhaps that's the "move" being discussed, although pictures show drivers not removed and hence binders not removed. Was "frame damage" one of those railfan rumors?
http://southern.railfan.net/flat/833/road-well.html

A thought. Back in the day, Steam locomotives were lifted with a cable slung under the smokebox and a steal beam under the cab.

Intermountain picked up the locomotive with a beam under the cylinder saddle and a beam under the cab, which is not much different than how it probably would have been moved around in a backshop.

That may even be a better way of moving a locomotive actually, as the frame is supported on both ends, vs. being lifted by the smoke box, which doesn't support the frame at the front end, and the weight of the frame at the front end transfers to the smokebox via all of the bolts between the smokebox and cylinder saddle.

CNR 6167 was lifted like that a few years back, with a sling around the smokebox. She did just fine.

The only minor thing is, when lifting the locomotive, you have have to put blocking under the driving boxes to keep the wheels from sagging and crushing the grease cellars underneath the driving boxes

That is all it was.

833 is all roller bearing. Blocking under the boxes is not necessary.

USATC 2-8-0s like Alaska Railroad #557 had a lifting lug from 3/4" plate bolted and welded to the top of the smokebox front for shipping purposes. A specially constructed spreader bar was bolted in place of the steam dome cover at the rear and attached to the lifting lug in front so the locomotives could be lifted on and off ships with a crane.