<P>What ever happened to the planned restoration of the Age of Steam's Big Boy locamotive?<br>

<P>I get this second and third-hand, so take it with a grain of salt, but that being said--<p>the word I get from people I trust is that this plan was all hype and no substance from the get-go. Some folks from Age of Steam fell in with a big-talking promoter; other folks from AOS were so skeptical from the beginning that it caused something of a rift within that organization.<p>I wouldn't look for any progress on this in the foreseeable future.<br><br>




eledbetter@rypn.org

<P>In my opinion, this was an ambitious project from the start. My discussions with the leadership of the Age of Steam lead me to believe that they were always very practical about the proposal. They would be ecstatic if it actually happened, but nothing was going to happen until certain guarantees and financial backing were in place. Had they gone so easily with the plans of the promoter, we might currently be discussing a pile of Big-Boy parts in a warehouse somewhere without the money to put them back together or return the loco to its home.<p>SRHS/AOS allowed the publicity to occur and took steps to prepare the engine for restoration, but I see no failure on their part. I can't blame the promoter, either. He has done nothing to make me suspect that he was trying to defraud anyone. He proposed an honest project, but there did not apear to be sufficient interest or investors to follow through.<p>Has there been an official announcement cancelling the project yet?<br>




andy.nold@gte.net

<P>You are just the kind of forgiving guy that promoters like the one involved here preys on.<p>He has left a trail of unpaid bills and people who paid for memberships/newsletters who never received anything for their money. Ther has been no accounting for the money raised, either. Just a long line of lies and ever-bigger lies to cover the previous lies.<p>AOS has dirty hands, too. When it became obvious to all but the most obtuse that this was a fraud, they sat on their hands and continued to let their exhibit piece be used as a cash cow for the promoter. Those with scruples were booted out of AOS for daring the question the propriety of this mess.<p>There is plenty of blame to go around. Just casually writing it off by saying that they all meant well invites a repeat at some other museum with some other engine. <br>

<P>Steam Realist:<p>Just a few points:<p>>You are just the kind of forgiving guy that >promoters like the one involved here preys on.<p>I too did not like this guy soliciting "donations" or some of the statements he made. It just goes to show that you should investigate and ask questions. For example, did any one ask if his organization was a 501c3? If not, then it is not a donation.<p>>He has left a trail of unpaid bills and people >who paid for memberships/newsletters who never >received anything for their money. Ther has been >no accounting for the money raised, either. Just >a long line of lies and ever-bigger lies to cover >the previous lies.<p>If this is true then take it up with your local district attorney.<p><br>>AOS has dirty hands, too. When it became obvious >to all but the most obtuse that this was a fraud, >they sat on their hands and continued to let >their exhibit piece be used as a cash cow for the >promoter. Those with scruples were booted out of >AOS for daring the question the propriety of this >mess.<p>Talk about scurrilous statements! There are plenty of people with scruples at the AOSRRM. Why do you think that the 4018 is still in one piece at the Museum?<p>Who got booted and who did the booting? To me, it appears that you have an axe to grind.<p>>There is plenty of blame to go around. Just >casually writing it off by saying that they all >meant well invites a repeat at some other museum >with some other engine.<p>How can you hold the AOSRRM responsible for this guy's actions? As far as a repeat goes, I'd like to hear some factual information about other locomotive restorations where the restoration was sponsored by someone outside of a groups membership.<p><br>As a followup; support your local railroad museum with either cash donations or volunteer labor. Remember, those involved with railroad preservation have a duty to the public.<br>

<P>>If this is true then take it up with your local >district attorney.<p>Not my problem; I didn't donate anything or buy any of his merchandise or "memberhips" because I smelled a rat. Nor am I a merchandise wholesaler who has been left holding the bag for merchandise shipped to him and which he sold but never paid for.<p>>AOS has dirty hands, too. When it became obvious >to all but the most obtuse that this was a >fraud, they sat on their hands and continued to >let their exhibit piece be used as a cash cow >for the promoter. Those with scruples were >booted out of AOS for daring the question the >propriety of this mess.<p>:Talk about scurrilous statements! There are plenty of people with scruples at the AOSRRM. Why do you think that the 4018 is still in one piece at the Museum? Who got booted and who did the booting? To me, it appears that you have an axe to grind.<p>Nope, no axe to grind, just a dose of reality that some at AOS don't want to face. I didn't say there were NO people left there with scruples. There obviously are, but they are keeping their heads down, having seen what happened to others who raised their voices. However, I know AOS people who ran into a brick wall when they dared ask questions of the power elite about this mess. <br> <br>>There is plenty of blame to go around. Just >casually writing it off by saying that they all >meant well invites a repeat at some other museum >with some other engine.<p>:How can you hold the AOSRRM responsible for this guy's actions? <p>AOSRRM has done nothing to distance itself from this guy or the "project" since it all turned to slime well over a year ago. As such, it's been a willing accomplice more or less. As this project and it's promoter sinks deeper into the slime, AOS's reputation gets dragged down with it, and that is a shame. Don't forget: It's AOS's engine that has kept this guy afloat. <p>:As far as a repeat goes, I'd like to hear some factual information about other locomotive restorations where the restoration was sponsored by someone outside of a groups membership.<p>Look north to St. Louis, for a start. The SLSF 1522, which is owned by the Museum of Transport, was restored and is maintained and operated by the St. Louis Steam Train Association, not the Museum of Transport. Granted, some funds and shop space have been provided by the MOT, but that's all. <br> <br>Then look east. The B&M Pacific at Scranton is owned by Steamtown NHS, but it's being restored and funded by non-Steamtown NHS parties. The two exPRR engines that Strasburg ran for years belong to the RRMPA, but Strasburg footed the bills. The N&W 611 was and still is owned by the museum in Roanoke, but NS paid for the restoration and operations of that fine machine for all those years it ran.<p>Those are the successful ones, though. I am not aware, off the top of my head, of any other museum that has let itself or one of it's artifacts be used in the manner of AOS and the 4018. <br>

<P>I can think of one group using another group's engine. Remember the UP 833 hoo-haw of a few years back? Guy raised around $35,000 and then skipped town, never to be heard from again.<p>Or the situation involving L&N pacific 152 where little or no accounting could be provided for monies raised. Resulted in legal action and a reorgnaization of the main group involved.<p>Or a local Denver doctor who claimed he owned several of the Colorado Railroad Museum exhibits and kept hinting that said museum was moving to one in Denver that this person had an interest in.<p>Point is, these are out there and they keep happening. A fool and his money are soon parted. Someone told me years ago lying was harder than telling the truth as you could get confused as to who was told what on each day of the week. <p>Where AOS blew it is not demanding references and financial disclosure up front that could be verified. <br>

<P>I would love to see the Big Boy operable again.I have not donated any money.I am just a fan.However,I look in my wallet now and see a twenty dollar bill,and I think to myself"will this money help the engine run again?"If I can't say yes for certain,the twenty stays with me.Who can you trust to make the most from donated money?Perhaps that is the hardest thing to convince the public.A person will gladly donate money if results are made,or reported to be made.If you can't tell results are happening,then money wont come easily.I think this is what happened to the Big Boy.<br> Trains Magazine had reported the project was under way,and had even provided pictures of happy railroaders waiving from the cab(I also remember seeing the Lionel Logo,where are they now?)plus an enthusiastic prognosis for 4018.<br> Now I think "could my Twenty dollars have helped?"I'd like to think so,but for now I still have it.Who can you trust with donated money?I'd like to see my twenty go for real progress.The Big Boy is welcome to it,if they can prove they can use it.......<p>Brian<br><br>




btamper@hotmail.com

<P>I beleive the article and pictures you saw were in Railfan which is Carstens Publications.<p>Reliable source at Kalmbach indicated to me several months ago that they had a general uneasiness about this project. And as a result, little publicity was going to be forthcoming from them until it was obvious that this thing had some real truth behind it. At that point rumors began spreading that Kalmbach indeed had an article in the works and the promoters were refusing to cooperate as the magazine was asking far to many pointed questions. <p>In answer to your question Brian, here are the basic questions that need to be asked every time one these restoration proposals comes up:<p>1). Do they have a pilot to tender inspection and what does this show?<p>2). Who are the people proposing the project and what is their resume like for past projects?<p>3). Where is the money going to come from?<p>4). Where will the work be done?<p>If you get a maybe or no to any of the above or to any sub questions related to the above it is time to say no and run away very quickly.<p>"Big Boy" failed each one of the above questions the first time they were asked.<br>

<P>...if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.<p>Nobody starts out promising the moon.<p>We had a fellow show up a few years ago at Spencer who claimed he'd been a director at Calif. State, had worked at Durango & Silverton, etc. He also claimed to be the owner of a restored NP 0-6-0 and an office car.<p>A couple of phone calls unraveled all of that and we never saw him again. <p>Send your money to places that have a track record (no pun intended) of doing good work and doing the right thing; visit them if you can. I sent money to a locomotive rebuild project out of state a few years ago. I got a follow up letter thanking me for the donation but nothing ever since then. I supsect the project has gone bellyup; so my donations will go elsewhere.<p>I also look for groups that logically "work their way up" to bigger and better projects. The non-profit group paired with the Cass Scenic Railroad is an excellent example. They started out restoring log camp train and skidder equipment for interpretation. Now they're aiming to tackle a locomotive. They've started out with relatively simple projects, and now they're working their way up to the most complex and money-sucking thing possible: A steam engine. <p><br>




Wrinnbo@aol.com

<P>Jim:<p>Was this really you?????????? Capital letters, punctuation, etc. Or did you get a ghost writer?<p>Les <p> <br>




midlandblb@cs.com

<P>Les, I guess I was in my "office mood" for the newspaper at the time! I'll get back to ee cummings again soon, though! <br>




Wrinnbo@aol.com

<P>jim, i dont<br>know whether to be shocked<br>or impressed<br>to hear that a hard-boiled,<br>asskicking, shayracing<br>newspaperman knows who<br>ee cummings is,<br>much less<br>that he broke the shift key<br>and most of the punctuation keys<br>off his typewriter when it fell off<br>the platform of the 20th century ltd<br>at the impressionable age of three<p>--malcolm<br>




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