As some of you may know, the annual "Spring Steamup" of the Rough and Tumble Engineers' Museum is coming up on Friday May 7, and Saturday May 8.

Featured at the show are the following:

-Narrow Gauge Steam Railway-- Featuring a Class A Shay Locomotive (2 Cylinder, 2 Truck). The Shay hauls its 2 car train around the perimeter of the R&T Grounds, providing a great opportunity to see the eitirety of the R&T Showgrounds.

-Steam Traction Engines of all brands-- From Avery to Baker under steam.

-Stationary Steam Engines-- From Models to huge Powerplant and Corliss-Valved engines.

-I.C. Engines of all types-- Huge examples with giant cyinders and flywheels, to smaller Hit n' Miss engines.

-I.C. Tractors of all types- Every kind imaginable -- on display and in operation.

Location: You can combine a trip to the Rough and Tumble with a visit to the Strasburg Railroad. We're located roughly 10 Minutes away from the Railroad, on the Right Side (Heading Westbound) of Route 30, in Kinzers, PA.

BE SURE TO STOP IN FOR AN EXPERIENCE YOU WON'T SOON FORGET!!!

-See the museum's web site (link below) for more specific directions, pictures, and information.



Rough and Tumble
SteamTrain84@aol.com

> BE SURE TO STOP IN FOR AN EXPERIENCE YOU
> WON'T SOON FORGET!!!

I'll vouch for that. When I was a teen, my Dad and I went there after visiting Strausburg. It was really neat to see all of that equipment in action, even the non-steam stuff!

JimE

Jim's train page
jre/ans@accusort.com

I looked over the Rough & Tumble website, but I did not see any detailed information about this shay - where it came from, year of manufacture, track gauge, etc. Could someone please post this information?

Thanks, Jim

> Featured at the show are the following:

> -Narrow Gauge Steam Railway-- Featuring a
> Class A Shay Locomotive (2 Cylinder, 2
> Truck). The Shay hauls its 2 car train
> around the perimeter of the R&T Grounds,
> providing a great opportunity to see the
> eitirety of the R&T Showgrounds.


jvliet@optonline.net

> I looked over the Rough & Tumble
> website, but I did not see any detailed
> information about this shay - where it came
> from, year of manufacture, track gauge, etc.
> Could someone please post this information?

Unless they have managed a miracle in secretive locomotive procurement since the photograph I saw was taken, I believe the "Shay" in question is a somewhat unorthodox "kitbash" involving a traction-engine boiler and maybe some Fairmont track cart wheels and axles. It's certainly not anything the Strasburg shop has ever monkeyed with--is it?



LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> Unless they have managed a miracle in
> secretive locomotive procurement since the
> photograph I saw was taken, I believe the
> "Shay" in question is a somewhat
> unorthodox "kitbash" involving a
> traction-engine boiler and maybe some
> Fairmont track cart wheels and axles. It's
> certainly not anything the Strasburg shop
> has ever monkeyed with--is it?
yesn you are right its home made they use a power boiler and a 2 cyl. saw mill eng. get a good look at the gears. they look like they came from a truck. its funky but it runs good. i hope to go and will check gage. bb

Steve Gilbert may chime in here since he sometimes runs the R&T Shay and it often sports a Reading six-chime whistle, which I believe belongs to him. Steve also did the first class lettering job on the engine and the two cars.

The Shay was built around 1973-74 by a steam engine enthusiast and former PRR conductor named Bruce Gronniger (not sure of spelling). He built it at his home and when finished he went looking for a place to operate it for the public. He brought it Rough and Tumble around 1975 and overseen the inital construction of track and its operation. Unfortunately he passed away soon after the Shay went into operation.

I forget where the boiler came from, but IIRC I believe it was a stationary unit. The two-cylinder engine is a Soule "feed" engine that was of the type used to power a sawmill carriage (ie: "feeding" the log into saw). I believe the wheels are from some section cars. Originally the lineshafts drove through automotive differentals mounted on the trucks with a final drive to axles via chains. Originally the trucks were "inboard" bearing and the gauge was originally something really weird like 27 inches (IIRC). The original passenger car (there was only one) was an open gondola style car with benches. It was made by the same man and also sported funky inboard bearing section car-wheeled trucks. Later the car got a roof.

Over the years the Shay has been reworked several times. I know Mr. Gilbert has had his hand in the rework, as did the late "D.J." Shirey of BM&R 425 / 2102 fame. The trucks were rebuilt at least once, I think twice. This gave them a more "prototypical" apperance. In the process the gauge was widened to 30 inches. All 8 wheels are now powered directly via ring and pinnion gears (not unlike a "real" shay, but IIRC, still using "automotive hardware"). Over the years the engine received a headlight, turbogenerator, bell, front number plate (#4) and a complete air brake system with a single lung air pump.

The original single passenger car also received rebuilt trucks when the gauge was widened. Eventually this car was replaced by the two current passenger cars that were constructed on industrial flat car frames supplied by Mr. Dave Shirey. Today the passenger cars have air brakes as well as the locomotive.

Over the years the R&T members have done much work to greatly improve the original track. The ROW has kink-free curves, straight tangents, and sports good ballast. The track loops around the show grounds and gives riders a good overview of various exhibit areas. Several years ago the members constructed a nifty wooden water tower at the station / boarding area. There are several grade crossings with crossbucks. Just beyond the West crossing, the ROW accends a short, but fairly steep grade. If you had any doubt that this homemade Shay wasn't like the "real" ones--stand here and listen to this neat little machine climb this hill!!

Regards,
Jim Robinson (an R&T regular since 1966)

Jim,
Thanks for the very accurate description of the Shay at R&T. Yes, I have been on the crew for over 10 years. The major re-building projects over the years have been with the aid of several different welders and machinsts, of which I am neither. The cars (from Dave Shirey) came from the Atlas Powder plant near Tamaqua, PA. They were covered flat cars, we added the seats and air-brakes.
The entire operation has been well organized and orchestrated by the Chairman of the "Shay RR Committee" at R&T, Dennis Hornberger. A long-time friend, we spent many enjoyable trips riding and chasing 611, 1218, 614, etc. Since the "demise" of mainline steam action here in the east, the little Shay helps fill the void for us.
Rough & Tumble has a nice web-site, if anyone wants to see photos, or find out when the run-days are (only about 10 days a year for our Shay). The organization has been around for over 50 years.
roughandtumble.org

...and if anyone knows where we could find a vintage light-weight 30-inch gauge rod-engine, like a 4-4-0 or 2-6-0, we just might be interested, if the price was right.

Thanks to Steve Gilbert's link, we have a photo. I must say, the entire operation is enormously improved from my memory of seeing the track through the fence--two to three times as many ties, actual ballast, and a loco that does a VERY impressive job of passing itself off as a Shay..... well done.

http://www.roughandtumble.org

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Steve,

This is Dave Haring, I started out as Conductor/Track Worker with the Shay RR early last Spring, but have been riding it all my life.

In reguards to the rod engine consideration, I alerted Dennis about the 30" Gauge 0-4-0ST that is over in Pine Creek, sitting derelict in their engine shed. I believe it is a former Copper Production/Mining Locomotive, originally Numbered 9, built by Porter. I do not know the condition, but noted it when I was at Pine Creek as being 30" gauge. This has the short wheelbase that we require, plus would be an original locomotive from a Steam-Era Manufacturer. Not sure how attached Pine Creek is to this locomotive, but they've been know to part with their engines before.

Just a thought!

I'd be willing to help in the mechanical restoration, as I have a large machine/welding shop at my disposal, and I have experience in doing these sorts of things.
Included in the shop are:
-A 19" swing 1880's Era Lathe
-A 13"x6' South Bend Lathe w/ Milling Attch.
-A 7"x 10" Minilathe (good for small bushings)
-3 "Heavier" Duty Metal Bandsaws
-An Oxy-Acetylene Rig
-Mig and Arc Welders
-A Mid-Sized Knee Mill, with boring attachment.
-Complete Woodshop.
-Much, much more.

Dave

> Jim,
> Thanks for the very accurate description of
> the Shay at R&T. Yes, I have been on the
> crew for over 10 years. The major
> re-building projects over the years have
> been with the aid of several different
> welders and machinsts, of which I am
> neither. The cars (from Dave Shirey) came
> from the Atlas Powder plant near Tamaqua,
> PA. They were covered flat cars, we added
> the seats and air-brakes.
> The entire operation has been well organized
> and orchestrated by the Chairman of the
> "Shay RR Committee" at R&T,
> Dennis Hornberger. A long-time friend, we
> spent many enjoyable trips riding and
> chasing 611, 1218, 614, etc. Since the
> "demise" of mainline steam action
> here in the east, the little Shay helps fill
> the void for us.
> Rough & Tumble has a nice web-site, if
> anyone wants to see photos, or find out when
> the run-days are (only about 10 days a year
> for our Shay). The organization has been
> around for over 50 years.
> roughandtumble.org

> ...and if anyone knows where we could find a
> vintage light-weight 30-inch gauge
> rod-engine, like a 4-4-0 or 2-6-0, we just
> might be interested, if the price was right.


The Rough and Tumble
SteamTrain84@aol.com

> In reguards to the rod engine consideration,
> I alerted Dennis about the 30" Gauge
> 0-4-0ST that is over in Pine Creek, sitting
> derelict in their engine shed. I believe it
> is a former Copper Production/Mining
> Locomotive, originally Numbered 9, built by
> Porter. I do not know the condition, but
> noted it when I was at Pine Creek as being
> 30" gauge. This has the short wheelbase
> that we require, plus would be an original
> locomotive from a Steam-Era Manufacturer.
> Not sure how attached Pine Creek is to this
> locomotive, but they've been know to part
> with their engines before.

There are at least four of these little Porter-built ex-Raritan Copper 0-4-0T's still around. Two are going on the block as part of the Edaville auction. They are ex-Raritan Copper 10 and 11. Both are static display pieces and 11 is without its saddletank. There was a third engine, ex-Raritan Copper 8, years ago at Edaville. This engine has moved around a few times and I believe is now under private ownership in Ohio, restored to operation on that person's private railroad (so I guess it IS possible to restore one of these loks to running condition!).

Not sure if the NJMT would part with their #9 (J.R. May, you out there??). After all it's a "Jersey Girl" what with Raritan Copper (later Anaconda Copper) being from Perth Amboy, NJ. Since it's local, they may want to keep it in the collection. I have no idea of its condition (nor that of 10 and 11 at Edaville), but I THINK it's at least fairly complete parts wise. It's sitting on a 36 inch gauge shop truck and is stored under the lean-to section of their car barn.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Thanks for the info!
Perhaps the Shay group would be interested in acquiring this engine, and if so, maybe something could be eventually worked out with Pine Creek.

Too bad I can't get up to the Edaville Auction tomorrow!

Dave

> There are at least four of these little
> Porter-built ex-Raritan Copper 0-4-0T's
> still around. Two are going on the block as
> part of the Edaville auction. They are
> ex-Raritan Copper 10 and 11. Both are static
> display pieces and 11 is without its
> saddletank. There was a third engine,
> ex-Raritan Copper 8, years ago at Edaville.
> This engine has moved around a few times and
> I believe is now under private ownership in
> Ohio, restored to operation on that person's
> private railroad (so I guess it IS possible
> to restore one of these loks to running
> condition!).

> Not sure if the NJMT would part with their
> #9 (J.R. May, you out there??). After all
> it's a "Jersey Girl" what with
> Raritan Copper (later Anaconda Copper) being
> from Perth Amboy, NJ. Since it's local, they
> may want to keep it in the collection. I
> have no idea of its condition (nor that of
> 10 and 11 at Edaville), but I THINK it's at
> least fairly complete parts wise. It's
> sitting on a 36 inch gauge shop truck and is
> stored under the lean-to section of their
> car barn.

> Regards,
> Jim Robinson


R&T
SteamTrain84@aol.com

My only question.. did they paint an engine that small with FloQuil Engine Black? Just kidding, guys, that looks like a really neat "kitbash" of an engine! I like it!

> My only question.. did they paint an engine
> that small with FloQuil Engine Black? Just
> kidding, guys, that looks like a really neat
> "kitbash" of an engine! I like it!

No, but the lettering came out of the same can of One-Shot imitation gold as did the 2102 and 614 !

Just a reminder that the R&T's Shay Railroad will be running this Friday the 7th, and Saturday the 8th, from about 10am to around 4pm.
The Shay Railroad Crew has worked very hard all winter and spring getting the second-to-last section of our 10 year track rebuilding project completed.

In addition to the Shay, there are many other exhibits on the ground that will be in operation.

Afer a silence of steam on the grounds of R&T all winter, this steamup will definately be a delight for the senses!

Dave

Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Society
SteamTrain84@aol.com