Hello All

Most of us here know how the railroads complied with "Jim Crow" laws with segregated passenger cars. I was having a vintage airliner discussion with a friend of mine and we both wondered how the airlines dealt with this, did they at all? Were there segregated aircraft for the "southern" routes, were airlines required to comply at all?

Dave Crosby

bing@epix.net

> Were there segregated aircraft for the
> "southern" routes, were airlines
> required to comply at all?

I canÂ’t speak about the segregation of airplanes, but remember that Jim Crow wasn't just a Southern issue. It was also enforced on trains that started in one state, but which terminated in a segregated state. For example, the Illinois Central segregated through coach and sleeping car traffic southbound from Chicago. The last thing they wanted was a massive shuffling of passengers as they crossed the Ohio River bridge in the middle of the night. The ICC ended Jim Crow in 1961, but the CAB may have had a more progressive policy.

fred_ash@bankone.com

I've never heard of a "Jim Crow" airplane.

I think, back then, airplanes were so expensive it was never an issue. Before jets, airplanes were also relatively small with little room for such things as separate cabins.

The airlines also did not regularly fly such routes that segregation would be an issue.

Also, airlines have always had the knack of exempting themselves from inconvenient regulations.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Growth of the airline business came so late in the Jim Crow era that it was never really an issue. It would have been difficult to enforce such laws anyway. There was probably some segregation in airports, but keep in mind before the government starting paying the bills most airports had little more than a landing strip and a small office/waiting room/control tower combo, and maybe a hangar nearby. The pioneers of air travel didn't have the money that some of the railroads did. Without considerable taxpayer support this would likely still be the case today.
mw

I've never heard of a "Jim Crow"
> airplane.

> I think, back then, airplanes were so
> expensive it was never an issue. Before
> jets, airplanes were also relatively small
> with little room for such things as separate
> cabins.

> The airlines also did not regularly fly such
> routes that segregation would be an issue.

> Also, airlines have always had the knack of
> exempting themselves from inconvenient
> regulations.


p_michael_warren@yahoo.com

> I've never heard of a "Jim Crow"
> airplane.

> I think, back then, airplanes were so
> expensive it was never an issue. Before
> jets, airplanes were also relatively small
> with little room for such things as separate
> cabins.

> The airlines also did not regularly fly such
> routes that segregation would be an issue.

> Also, airlines have always had the knack of
> exempting themselves from inconvenient
> regulations.

I suspect that the companies may have tried to seat "people of color" next to other "people of color." The rationale would have been that this would make all people more comfortable.

I have heard the story that during the 1960s two of the major western railroads had there own code when agents called in for reservations to indicate if the passenger was white, black or hispanic. The company would then seat such people next to similar people.

Think of it, back in the 1930s (and into the 1950s) a number of railroads had separate coaches for women traveling alone or traveling with children. Or more than 100 years ago having separate woman's waiting rooms in station buildings. And then there were the smoking cars and smoking sections. We used to segregate people in many different ways.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Commercial airplanes themselves were not segregated, but ground facilites certainly were, depending on your location. Unlike the railroads, the airlines by necessity attempted to attract every fare they could, regardless of race issues. As long as the potential passenger could afford the airfare, nothing else mattered. In fact, for those who look at the historical details you will see that the black middle and upper classes preferred the airplane or automobile to the train whenever those options were available. The highway and airport facilities may have been segregated but the highways and airplanes themselves were not.

awalker1829@yahoo.com

To bring this back to a railroad theme, here are some links that I posted on the Yahoo Group "PRR · PRR-FAX List":

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb4 ... calisphere
http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb4 ... nk.id=meta

These 2 links bring you to scans, as well as transcriptions, of the actual contemporary account of a trip on a PRR through train to the South in 1947. The author requested that United Nations employees and diplomats use Eastern Airlines instead of the railroads because of the discrimination experienced. I wonder how much effect this ride had on the demise of passenger train patronage?
How many other 1st hand contemporary accounts of railroad subjects are on line
to be found, so that we don't always have to rely on our 65 year old memories?
I wasn't even born when the trip was taken, but I suspect that it might have had
some influence on government and public attitudes against railroads. Many
stories I hear from the public about why they don't ride or ship on the trains
simply drop the word about race and claim that they heard that everyone is
treated badly by the railroads. Or do I just sound like a speaker at a Grange
Hall in the 1880s?

>There was probably some segregation in airports, <
I know in 1956 at the Ft. Worth, TX airport the terminal was segregated with "White Only" and "Colored" signs at the appropriate locations. I saw these when I visited my kinfolks that summer.
Max