Possible survivor? PRR MP-54 *PIC*

Frank Hicks · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2004 1:19 am

The photo below showed up on George Elwood's Fallen Flags photo site recently. It shows Penn Central MP-54 MU car #431 on October 25, 1987 in Dover, Delaware. My question is: what happened to this car? It looks like it may have been retained by the railroad for some non-revenue use, as it's under wire but doesn't have a pan. Is it still around? Any information is appreciated - thanks!

Frank Hicks

Preserved North American Electric Railway Cars

F-Hicks@wiu.edu

Tom Gears · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2004 9:52 am

That photo was taken in Wilmington at West Yard. That is where SEPTA used to store a large number of MP54 when they were in service. A few hung around after they were removed from service, I can't read the number. It might have ended up at Wilmington and Western but I think it was cut up.

West Yard by the way was once the center of the railroading universe.

Tom Gears

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2004 9:53 am

> The photo below showed up on George Elwood's
> Fallen Flags photo site recently. It shows
> Penn Central MP-54 MU car #431 on October
> 25, 1987 in Dover, Delaware. My question is:
> what happened to this car? It looks like it
> may have been retained by the railroad for
> some non-revenue use, as it's under wire but
> doesn't have a pan. Is it still around? Any
> information is appreciated - thanks!

It's not in Dover, Delaware, I can guarantee you--no catenary south of the Corridor. Judging from the surroundings, I'm guessing that this is in Wilmington West Yard, if it indeed is in 1987. A couple abandoned MP54's loitered for years in Wilmington West Yard before being scrapped; I'm guessing that this is one of them. The Wilmington & Western ended up with about five of them in the mid-1980s; I think their ex-PC "green" one was kitbashed into an abortive open car with no seats and enlarged windows. (The others were ex-Washington Terminal and SEPTA.)

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Peter Schmidt · **Posted:** Sat May 29, 2004 12:43 pm

> The photo below showed up on George Elwood's
> Fallen Flags photo site recently. It shows
> Penn Central MP-54 MU car #431 on October
> 25, 1987 in Dover, Delaware. My question is:
> what happened to this car? It looks like it
> may have been retained by the railroad for
> some non-revenue use, as it's under wire but
> doesn't have a pan. Is it still around? Any
> information is appreciated - thanks!

> Frank Hicks

Frank:

The photo was not taken in Dover,DE. There isn't /wasn't any catenary in Dover. I suspect it is shown in the former MU coach yard immediaely south of the Wilmington station.

Pete Schmidt

pjslks@ix.netcom.com

Greg Schultz · **Posted:** Sun May 30, 2004 10:18 pm

> The photo below showed up on George Elwood's
> Fallen Flags photo site recently. It shows
> Penn Central MP-54 MU car #431 on October
> 25, 1987 in Dover, Delaware. My question is:
> what happened to this car? It looks like it
> may have been retained by the railroad for
> some non-revenue use, as it's under wire but
> doesn't have a pan. Is it still around? Any
> information is appreciated - thanks!

> Frank Hicks

I think the Hocking Valley Scenic just scrapped their Pennsy cmotor coach. I know they planned to this summer along with one of their ex-Erie commuter coaches.

Sad end huh?

G

greg@nospam.skittercreek.com

Matt Conrad · **Posted:** Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:27 pm

> The photo below showed up on George Elwood's
> Fallen Flags photo site recently. It shows
> Penn Central MP-54 MU car #431 on October
> 25, 1987 in Dover, Delaware. My question is:
> what happened to this car? It looks like it
> may have been retained by the railroad for
> some non-revenue use, as it's under wire but
> doesn't have a pan. Is it still around? Any
> information is appreciated - thanks!

I recall seeing a couple MP54 bodies sitting somewhere along DE route 896 (I think) south of Wilmington about ten years ago. They were grounded and in bad shape, but MAY still be there. Anyone in that area who could swing by that way for a look...?

I know SEPTA kept a couple RDG Blueliner EMUs as line cars. The RR Museum of PA has intact examples of both a Blueliner and an MP54, IIRC.

mconrad@msmgmt.com

Rick · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:50 pm

The RR Museum of PA has
> intact examples of both a Blueliner and an
> MP54, IIRC.

No, RRMPA's MP-54 was scrapped this past Spring due to extensive PCB contamination and rotten condition.

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:33 pm

In the best interests of interpretive preservation, wouldn't it be smarter for the RRMPa to have a pair of MP54's displayed in MU fashion? How many MP54's survived the purge? Are other examples available to replace the one lost while awaiting rehab?

glueck@maine.edu

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:46 pm

> In the best interests of interpretive
> preservation, wouldn't it be smarter for the
> RRMPa to have a pair of MP54's displayed in
> MU fashion? How many MP54's survived the
> purge? Are other examples available to
> replace the one lost while awaiting rehab?

There are others "available" in various stages of decay, rehabilitation, and/or conversion. I think only the one at the RRMPa was intact AS AN MP54. However, a couple are on the Wilmington & Western (my memory says two unconverted examples, both thoroughly stripped/decayed, are there, along with two repainted cars in service and an abortive open-car rebuild); I recall a couple in Avondale, Pa. behind the former/current trackside antique store; and I believe a few other examples are on the West Chester RR and/or stored along the Brandywine Valley RR. This pool of ex-SEPTA cars could be anywhere by now, of course, as there was a lot of overlap between the W&W, West Chester, and Brandywine Valley passenger operations over the decades--the owner of the Avondale cars also donated his 0-6-0 #58 to the W&W several years ago, for example.

The important features needed for restoration as an MP54 would be the pantograph (most of them, like the ones on the Lackawanna MU's, were scrapped wantonly), the traction motors, and the cab controls. There should be enough seat frames between the many shells to allow restoration of seating. Of course, no one is proposing restoration to operating condition......... are they? <:-)

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:20 pm

Of course, no one is proposing
> restoration to operating condition.........
> are they? <:-)

Heaven forbid!

glueck@maine.edu

Douglas vV · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:02 am

> There are others "available" in
> various stages of decay, rehabilitation,
> and/or conversion. I think only the one at
> the RRMPa was intact AS AN MP54. However, a
> couple are on the Wilmington & Western
> (my memory says two unconverted examples,
> both thoroughly stripped/decayed, are there,
> along with two repainted cars in service and
> an abortive open-car rebuild); I recall a
> couple in Avondale, Pa. behind the
> former/current trackside antique store; and
> I believe a few other examples are on the
> West Chester RR and/or stored along the
> Brandywine Valley RR. This pool of ex-SEPTA
> cars could be anywhere by now, of course, as
> there was a lot of overlap between the
> W&W, West Chester, and Brandywine Valley
> passenger operations over the decades--the
> owner of the Avondale cars also donated his
> 0-6-0 #58 to the W&W several years ago,
> for example.

> The important features needed for
> restoration as an MP54 would be the
> pantograph (most of them, like the ones on
> the Lackawanna MU's, were scrapped
> wantonly), the traction motors, and the cab
> controls. There should be enough seat frames
> between the many shells to allow restoration
> of seating. Of course, no one is proposing
> restoration to operating condition.........
> are they? <:-)

A while back (about 1980 I think), I saw an MP54 at the Tennessee RR Musem. What happend to it?

Doug vV

douglasvanveelen@mindspring.com

JimBoylan · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:59 pm

Delaware & Ulster Rail Ride, Arkville, N.Y. had as least 2, being used as coaches. They thought that they rode very well!

104577.651@compuserve.com

Chris Jacks · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:19 am

> Delaware & Ulster Rail Ride, Arkville,
> N.Y. had as least 2, being used as coaches.
> They thought that they rode very well!

True. However, they are painted for New York Central...

About 15 years ago there were three or four MP54s off live rail in Delaware. The owner was trying to make them into some sort of museum or store. He also had a small steamer, like an 0-6-0. The same person owned the 4-6-2 425 that later went to the Blue Mountain and Reading.

Chris J.

christrainman@yahoo.com

B. Allan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:46 pm

> Delaware & Ulster Rail Ride, Arkville,
> N.Y. had as least 2, being used as coaches.
> They thought that they rode very well!

The D & U has three MP54's , they ride well and are built like battleships

B. Allan

http://www.cvsr.com
cvsrkahuna@aol.com

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:17 pm

> About 15 years ago there were three or four
> MP54s off live rail in Delaware. The owner
> was trying to make them into some sort of
> museum or store. He also had a small
> steamer, like an 0-6-0. The same person
> owned the 4-6-2 425 that later went to the
> Blue Mountain and Reading.

If it's truly Delaware, it's Hockessin, north end of the W&W with a live siding and PRR 60 on display. I recall only 60 and a caboose, but maybe an MP54 is in the lineup now.

But that description more closely fits the Avondale, Pa. set owned by Brian Woodcock, former owner of AB&A 0-6-0 58 (now in W&W service), who at one time I believer was owner or part owner (see discussion on proving locomotive ownership) of "Four and a Quarter" as well.

Sheesh, who'lda though that "0-6-0 and MP54s" could apply to two distinct sets of equipment so close to one another?

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net