In complete fairness, the exact same thing could be said of the British rail preservation scene, which legitimately has what can be described as a wretched surplus of SR, LMS, and GWR "hulks" of a variety of sizes, thanks to the past presence of Dai Woodham's breakers yard in Barry, South Wales.
That didn't stop the dreamers from filling the big "gap" in LNER/Eastern Region passenger steam preservation with the A1 replica, and maybe further the proposed P2 2-8-2. But Britain has a mainline steam excursion policy, and even if that were to go away there are still excursion lines where a "big" steamer could operate at least somewhat effectively.

Whether we like it or not, a serious effort to build a PRR T1 replica, properly planned and vetted, will absolutely attract interest, dollars, and publicity that would/will not be attracted by--just to dredge up examples--the effort to restore B&M 3713 at Steamtown, any proposal to restore PRR M1 6755 at the Railroad Museum of Pa. or C&O 490 or 1309 at the B&O Museum, the LIRR 39 project, or even the proposal to rebuild CN 4-6-2 5288 into a SR Ps-4 "replica". I would even suggest that, properly done, it'd "outdraw" a proposed NYC Niagara or Hudson replica proposal. Whether this additional "star staus" can translate into enough dollars and expertise to get it built is another question, and finding a place to "satisfactorily" run it is yet again another issue.

I agree.


Please forget about it! because........this is the way you see it, not the TV makers.

They will rather make a bunch of male dreamers of you, seeking for money just to build another air-polluting dinosaur. Or probably you will be presented as some bearded beer-drinkers giving the all-time harmless funny loser. Surely you will win lots of serious wealthy donors this way...

You will have absolutely no influence on what the politically correct makers do with your idea.

As to the discussion gaining momentum:

Just let them criticise and question the project, you will have to deal with the critics and gain strength out of it.

Mike

Criticism is best dealt with by answering the questions with good information. I'm reading about an idea which is interesting but doesn't have a lot of foundation built under it yet. Asking for foundation isn't an unreasonable criticism - just a means of learning how well developed the idea is and how serious the promoters are about building a good plan to build a locomotive.

dave

Thank you, BOK, for the reality check. Everyone who reads this discussion site should read what he's written several times, carefully parsing what he's said. He knows. He's been there, done that, and no matter how fervently we enthusiasts/preservationists desire it, the operation of big, fast, noisy mainline steam locomotives on main lines is and will remain severely proscribed for all the reasons he lists.

I rode Reading Rambles 50 years ago, and I rode behind 759, and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of every trip. I enjoyed seeing 765 do its thing in Pennsylvania last year and I look forward to seeing 4501 when she finally emerges. But time moves on, and life is a whole lot different today than it was then. There are plenty of smaller locomotives out there that are prime candidates for restoration and operation. In my book, the opportunity to be up close and personal with a ten-wheeler or a 2-8-0 or a narrow gauge 2-8-2 counts much more than a fleeting glimpse of a 4-8-4 thundering by.

That is why I feel that the goal is the process, not the end result. A guarantee of operation cannot be made or even forseen, so structure the project so that the deliverables is a 15 year long learning project in metal arts/manufacturing technology.

We have two contemporaneous plans that have been discussed on RYPN in the recent past. 1) This plan, to recreate a T1, and 2) the plan to restore Maine Central 470. While they are not necessarily comparable, both seem to have a different approach. The 470 people have put together a solid business plan, including commitments to allow the locomotive to operate on other railroads. The T1 is selling corporate adversiting. In the end, it will be interesting to see if one, the other, or both are sucessful.




Yeah, but when your business plan that you sell advertisment on the locomotive and is thus based on the locomotive being able to travel, under steam, coast to coast three times in the first three years of operation, then you've made operation a goal. Had they made the journey as key as the destination, I'd be with you on this, but it is clear from the materials of the "trust" that operation, and thus advertising for corporate sponsors is an integral part of their business plan.




Thank you sir, that is at least a start. The information obtained from the Missouri Secretary of State is attached:

Has the T1 group filed with the IRS for 501- c3 status?

Unfortunately, networks such as the History Channel have been broached on the reality show concept of rebuilding old engine so and so. While polite, the answer has been consistently "no". Most likely their thought is it appeals to a small segment of society which they cannot sell advertisers on.

<sarcasm>
Aw, he's just another "Nattering Nabob of Negativity®". or, as some guy liked to say around here, a "Toid." Don't listen to him.
</sarcasm>

Agreed.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the way of "REAL" contact information on the website.

I did a "who is" lookup, and got a Maryland address, which seems to be a UPS store drop box, and a New York state cell phone number. Couple that with a Missouri incorporation, and it all starts smelling more than a tiny bit fishy.

Well, maybe more than a tiny bit fishy...more like an overturned semi trailer full of spoiled Lutefisk.

In my opinion, this entire operation seems to be on a par with the infamous "Nigerian Bank Scam" emails, and I would not be one bit surprised if the entire operation folded up and disappeared as soon as they cash their first check from a "corporate sponsor".

If whoever is behind this scheme is serious, and wants even 1 cent of my hard earned cash, they need to step forward, provide REAL contact information on their website, as well as providing us with names and contact information for ALL the officers of their corporation.

Jeff Delhaye

So many unanswered questions about the demand curve.

There is a lot more to the “way cool” sentiment than our grown up pragmatic, rational, and logical minds want to acknowledge. My dad had the LP “The Talking Giants” narrated by Howard Fogg. In either the introduction or an introduction to the last track on the Album, Howard describes the Steam locomotive as the “most near human invention ever created”. Truer words have could not be said of the Steam locomotive. Troll through You Tube and find clips from movies that feature a steam locomotive, and take particular note of what is going on with the sound track. Movie makers use the audible qualities of the Locomotive to stimulate audience emotion much the way they use music. These magnificent machines have this way of stirring our emotions – they entertain us stimulating the senses (see, hear, touch, smell). It is in the emotional experience that demand is found for these dangerous, expensive, impractical, and cantankerous beasts.

To me this proposal and similar others have the same unknown – demand. The way cool sentiment is over on the demand curve. So what is the marketable value of a way cool steam locomotive? If it is 10 M strong then a T-1 can be built. One last random thought on this. 10 M is tectonic in terms of demonstrating interest in rail transportation. Where to run a locomotive that has created 10 M in interest would have an ability to take care of itself IMO.

From the T1 Trust website:



I think the more interesting question is if Mr. Camp cannot get two people to join within the next 12 months, what happens?

Will the T1 Trust then issue a statement that they would like to "unthank" Mr. Camp?

From the T1 Trust website:



One year to bring 2 more charter members? Sounds an awful lot like a pyramid scheme to me!

And....Why only TEN charter members?

If this organization is serious about raising funds for this scheme, why would they LIMIT this source of income?

In my opinion, this limit is to promote a false sense of "exclusivity", and is purposely set higher than any sane projection of membership growth at this level, so as not to actually limit the growth of this scheme.

Please see my previous posting, regarding Lutefisk...

Jeff

Overmod, who posts here regularly is a frequent contributor to the T1 project's forum. It all seems to be headed up by a fellow by the name of Brad Noble, with Scott McGill of Chester County, PA their CMO. Nate Clark is their webmaster located in MD. It is a true creation of the internet with major players located in various locations across the US.

The organization is rather transparent if you ask me, with a members only forum being the location from which much of the planning for this project is taking place. They don't have a true board of directors as of yet, but I believe they are working in that direction. The core group are discussing how such a board should be structured and who would be the best candidates for board membership.

Yes they are at the very early stages of getting this project off the ground, but they are going about it in a good way. Some of the topics being discussed range all the way from basic organization to marketing to operation and of course deign and construction. At this point I would say that nothing is set in stone, so I would not take the idea of corporate sponsorship on a roaming locomotive as being the official policy of the organization.

If you are truly interested in supporting this project, right now what they need most are intelligent people to help them work out all of the challenges inherent with such an endeavor. They won't let just anyone into the members only area so as to keep the discussions there serious without distractions from foamers, but if you are a well respected person with a track record of providing insightful knowledge, they will probably welcome you into their fold.

Transparent, and members only? Nope, That's Opaque.



And yet, they are already asking for obscene amounts of money!



No firm plan, no real leadership, planning behind a members only paywall, and asking for large amounts of cash up front...still sound like "going about it in a good way", to you?

Jeff Delhaye
Pig in a Poke, Illinois

Wanna buy 10 scenic acres of everglades swampland?

So, I shouldn't take words "printed" on their website seriously? I shouldn't take their marketing plan seriously?

A website is an organization's public window into the world. If I can't trust what their message is, why would I want to donate, join and/or sponsor?

If the T1 "Trust" is a legitimat endeavour, the inexperience of their leadership may sink the project before it starts. I'm not opposed to people meeting up and starting with the proverbial "wouldn't it be nice?" attitude, but at some point, your idea has to mature before it can become a reality.

David W.
Amway, UT