The last four BofD meetings are below. I don't have the hard numbers of attendance, but the registration forms were on the NRHS website and are still on the archives materials for officers and board members.

Spring 2014 - Lewisburg, PA
Registration = $40
North Shore rail trip = $70

Winter 2014 - St. Louis, MO
Registration = $40
Metrolink Shop Tour = $15

Fall 2013 - Claymont, DE
Registration = $35
Strasburg/SMS trip = $65

Summer 2013 - Minneapolis, MN
Registration = $35
area rail attraction tour = $59

I will also defend the Alaska convention. I heard no complaints about Tacoma, but airfare to Alaska and hotels at the convention were less than for Tacoma for much of the country. We had roundtrip airfares less than $300 for Anchorage, while Seattle/Tacoma was more than $700 from the same airports. We also had $79 hotel rooms in Fairbanks versus the $139+ at Tacoma. I also haven't heard complaints that you can't get to Vermont, but it is either a $1000 overnight Amtrak ride in sleeper (using three trains), $800 by air (and requires at least three flights), or two hard days of driving from my part of the country .

The cruise ship companies have done a wonderful job of convincing most Americans that Alaska is very expensive and very difficult to get to. It is actually a standing joke by regular travelers to Alaska and local residents. I heard complaints by several people that Alaska was too expensive because milk was $12 a gallon. I checked at the local Walmart and it was less than $4 a gallon. Gasoline was actually 50 cents lower than where the complainer was living, and the BigMac down the street was at the same price. Yes, if you get above the Arctic Circle or stop at Chicken or McCarthy, you will find prices higher (but still often lower than in New York City or many other large cities), but the convention was in Fairbanks and Anchorage, just normal American cities where a 4000 square foot house sells for about $400,000, less than most large cities in the lower 48. The convention was also the week after the cruise season ended and hotel and other costs were about half of what the peak season travel costs normally are for cruise folks.

For many folks, Alaska was easier and cheaper to get to than conventions at New London (CT), Tacoma (WA), and New Jersey. There are no reasons that conventions can't move around to different parts of the country, or even the world, to be accessible to all members and even new members. Not everyone can attend all convention and the numbers seem to stay fairly even between events. From the folks that attended the Alaska convention, all I have heard are thanks for running it as many folks wanted to go on an organized rail event in Alaska (their bucket list trip). The ticket prices weren't cheap (but certainly not much higher or lower than other conventions for equal equipment and ride lengths), but no convention is going to be cheap between the travel, time, and all of the expenses involved in attending and holding a convention.

Finally, it is interesting that no matter what the ticket price, the premium seats sell first, and sell fast, especially from certain parts of the country. For the Arkansas convention, the dome sold almost immediately, mostly from the northeast (New York especially). When the dome and parlor seats sold out, sales from that part of the country almost stopped. I had several folks state that if they couldn't get a dome, they weren't attending. I went back and looked at the data from several past conventions and saw the same thing. Members from the northeast and northwest buy premium, the members from the midwest buy coach. When putting together a train, dome and parlor equipment generally doesn't cost much more than a coach. Full domes have about the same seating capacity, therefore the premium seats actually are supporting the convention costs more, allowing the coach seats to have lower ticket prices.

Yes, I know that there are a number of people complaining about the conventions, and pretty much everything else. But in an earlier post I listed some of the reasons I have been told that they won't attend. As the conventions move around, it allows different themes. In Iowa we had 4 days of steam, 2 days of interurban-type electric operations, two days of Amtrak trains, some industry tours, and three days of shortline rail trips - certainly a mix of ride types. Arkansas had a part of a day of steam (all that is in the area), several days of Alco passenger trains and shop tours, and several chances to ride trolleys. Alaska had a day of steam (with an option for more), shop and dispatcher tours, and a number of days of rail trips with some of the greatest scenery in the world. There has certainly been an effort to include all types of rail events, within reason (some people complained that the White Pass & Yukon wasn't a day event out of Anchorage without realizing that it was 800 miles one-way between Anchorage and Skagway - I also got asked why we didn't bring Frisco 1522 to the Arkansas convention to run on ex-Frisco track), at these conventions.

I don't attend all of the NRHS conventions (or of other organizations that I am a member of), and at many showed up for only one event, but I never held my breath and then called for the end of the organization simply because every convention wasn't built around exactly what I was interested in. And by the way, if anyone has a good convention plan (not a wild idea but a serious plan with some contacts and estimated costs) that they would like to submit and help plan, the NRHS is always looking for ideas and help. Both Alaska and Vermont came about because I had the contacts with the railroads and no other serious plans with the contacts and pricing stepped forward. There were requests at the BofD and Advisory Board meetings.

With a few exception the fall and spring, NRHS 'conferences' have been sponsored and run by local chapters with all ticketing and funds moving through their books.

(The winter conferences are usually run by the National, but do not include events/field trips.)

You can get a rough idea of the attendance numbers for the conferences from the minutes that were posted on the NRHS site. The attendance numbers for the conventions have also been published.

Dates and locations of the conferences are published in The Telegraph and in the RHI list of events which NRHS distributes by Email, as mentioned conference order forms and event details are available on the NRHS web site.

Bob H

Bart:

I am not denigrating what you and other officers do.

I am only telling you what it looks like to some of us out in the hinterlands who only see our dues increasing.

It's not fair, but too often, perception is reality.

I have no beef whatsoever with the main convention locations, and absolutely no doubt at all that there will be someone somewhere who will complain about anything or everything no matter what you do or offer.

Every village has a few cranks and idiots who will never be happy.

The NRHS is in big trouble, and the reasons listed in this thread (issues with Greg Molloy, the BoD, or the conventions) aren't the main reasons. The key issue is falling membership, and the main reason for that is that the local Chapters, especially in the big cities, are in rapid decline in most cases. People just aren't interested in joining them, or going to their meetings. A major problem is the lack of steam operations for these Chapters to operate, but even steam trips couldn't save the Bluewater Michigan (Detroit area) Chapter from the severe decline it is in. Dues increasing seemingly year after year don't help either. The NRHS allowing at-large members accelerated the decline of the local Chapters. Also accelerating this decline is how difficult it is to get anyone to volunteer for roles such as Treasurer in NRHS Chapters, the national NRHS, or other non-profits.

I am not sure if there is any way to quickly turn this around. Even if 611 came to Chicago or Detroit next year and ran public trips for the Chicago and Bluewater Chapters, I am not sure if these trips would generate much interest for these groups.

Chris.

Steam operations alone aren't the issue. It might be one, but it's only one of many.

For most Chapters nationwide, just what, exactly, do they DO? The answers are varied--run a small excursion line or station museum, run a private car or a fleet, hold monthly "slide shows," etc.--but seldom do I see any activity or outreach to the general public, or offering "something different" to non-members. Are they operating for themselves--"playing trains", as the saying goes--or are they sharing with, or operating for, the public?

Let me tell you a tale of one NRHS Chapter. I visited two times over the years, and offered to bring a "slide show" from "out East" to show them each time. Under one group of officers, I was just the entertainment after a business meeting, and I offered them slides of trains out East in my area. They had maybe 12 members attend.
A couple years later, I dropped a line to the new officers, who knew what I had to offer, and they suggested that, instead, I compile a show of the "ghost railroads" of that area--which I was in a keen position to do, having done much of the photography the past couple trips out there. They switched the meeting to a local coffeehouse and advertised it to the general public as a "local history" program--and got a most interested 40-50 townspeople in attendance. Even the local railfans weren't used to having their native stomping ground shown through the eyes of an out-of-towner.

Chris and Alexander have it exactly right.

Let's take a look at my local situation. I have, until recently, been an "at large" member (insert your own joke here...)

That costs me $50 per year. For that, I get a nice magazine, and... uh... the warm fuzzy feeling that I'm helping preserve railroad history by, um, uh, what is it they do?

My local chapter, Tacoma, has the most useless website you can possibly imagine http://www.railheritage.org/ (Think I'm joking? Follow the link...)

No idea what dues are, if they have any meetings or anything else. They used to operate Camp 6. If they currently have any type of museum operation, I'm not aware of it.

So, let's say they charge $25 per year (probably low) for the sake of argument. I could join the local and national chapters, go to meetings on occasion (presumably they have some?) and see some slideshows. And get a magazine that's published quarterly if I recall correctly. All that for $75 per year?

OR... I can subscribe to Classic Trains for $25 per year, and, if I'm so inclined, donate the $50 I save to the museum of my choice. If I want to see pretty train photos, I'll go to RP.net.

So tell me again why I should renew my membership?

Several folks have contacted me here, and via e-mail, about not feeling bad about some of the comments here. Actually, I want everyone to know that I don't. I really feel that discussions like this are what the NRHS needs, so I want to thank RPN for letting it continue. I don't know if I am sounding like I am venting, but I don't know if many people know what I and others have to put up with to manage a convention and the many other tasks that are required to manage an organization like NRHS. Trust me, I can go consult for lots of money in my spare time, or go and run more trips for the Southern Appalachia Railway Museum and others, but I'm trying to help make some improvements in the organization.

One of my biggest complaints is how many people know many of these things and haven't shared them with the membership. In my opinion, this has let rumors control the NRHS and not the facts. I have a number of people send me their chapter newsletters asking if the information in it is true, and quite often it is not. I contacted one newsletter editor with some corrections, and he actually communicated to me that he didn't care if I had the facts, he was going to print what he wanted to print.

I'll give one example if I can. I former NRHS leader was sending out letters to newsletter editors and other members warning people to not sign up for the Alaska convention because the NRHS was going to take their registration money and use it for other things. He warned that the NRHS had already made a deposit with the railroad, so their money wasn't protected. Well, deposits are pretty common for events like conventions, and yes a deposit had been made with the Alaska Railroad. However, the NRHS buys a cancellation insurance policy for the conventions for several thousand dollars which protects the NRHS from such disasters. This way, even if the Alaska Railroad and the State of Alaska folded, the NRHS would get its deposits back. It also covers things like natural disasters in the middle of conventions which could force major changes, rescues, etc. It is pretty much a standard business practice that has been added to NRHS convention planning for the past few years. A number of folks in NRHS management knew this was done, and it was certainly a line item in the convention budget. However, this person who at the same time was complaining about convention attendance, was at the same time telling folks to not attend.

Communications has been a huge issue, in my opinion, at NRHS. There are many conflicting interests, and this has led to various groups hoarding information, spreading rumors, and not really working for a common goal. I know of several folks who have quit the BofD, and even NRHS, just to get away from the infighting. The old BofD meetings were famous for people fighting over the tiniest issues while major problems were simply tabled. Several people are even threatening to sue others over the direction of the organization.

Al will likely get a short break in this behavior, but I hope that he can manage to get the various factions together quickly before the old pattern returns. NRHS certainly deserves a chance, but it will take a clear mission with common goals, and lots of communications. A place like this to share comments and information would certainly help, in my opinion.

Chris, Alexander, etc. have hit the nail on the head, in my opinion (sorry, some of their posts came in while I had started my previous post but was called to the phone for some work). People will join if there are activities that they are interested in, and the organization is interested in having them.

At the Iowa convention, we attracted more than 100 new members to the NRHS, almost all from the local Iowa area as we heavily promoted that convention starting a year in advance (a major change from the old policy of no new members allowed until 30 days before the event, and then only if tickets are still available). I had contacted the local chapter to see if they could help at the convention, or were interested in being there, and received six months later a short type written letter saying that they were basically too old and too few to attend. This was a missed opportunity for new members. This left it up to the at-large membership to keep them active, not the strongest draw (although I am an at-large member for a very interesting reason I will mention later). We have been fortunate to see a fairly large number of the new Iowa members stay with NRHS, as many went to the Alaska convention and then the Arkansas convention (suddenly Iowa is a top 10 state for convention attendees).

I too have attended chapter meetings where I get to sit through an hour of talk about the old days only to be hurried through my presentation, so I feel for Alexander. After leaving the railroad industry temporarily to get some more education, I attended a local NRHS chapter and was basically told that I wasn't wanted as a member. I later found out that they had thrown out almost all of their younger members because they wanted to do something with the passenger cars the group had, as well as some of the money, on a local branch line that the local railroad wanted to give them. The old hands seemed to enjoy sitting around telling stories watching "their" back account. The younger members went a formed a new group and still run a regular tourist railroad and museum. One group is active, the other one is dead.

I also agree with the comment of Chris and others about whether even local steam trips will save the local chapters. Unfortunately, younger people have to work and their time is limited, so when they do volunteer they want to get busy right now and make a difference immediately. Dragging things out doesn't help.

On the other hand, look at the group at Cass. Much of their board is in their 20s and they are managing major activities. Suddenly it seems that the older members decided that the younger members could do it, and they have let them go. I tried to bring in college students to help with some convention activities (and was warned by some to not do it) with some limited success, but there was a resistance to it. If you don't welcome people in to what they want to do, at a price (time and money) they are willing to pay, they aren't going to stay around.

RPN is serving many of the purposes that local chapters, and the national organization, used to serve. There is some great sharing of information here (I've been using the data from the discussion on passenger cars to fill in a few gaps I have in my car listings) that used to be done at chapter meetings. Does that make us all at-large RPN members?

Nothing wrong with that, unless you make it wrong. The facts you provided are among the reasons that I dropped my affiliation with the NRHS. The fact is that we must recruit the people who will one day fill our shoes at our respective organizations.

Out here in Tucson, I have not seen anything done by the local NRHS Chapter-not even when the Union Pacific brought the 844 and their exhibition train through to mark the centenary of Arizona Statehood! The preservation group that worked with the UP to bring the train to Tucson was the Southern Arizona Transportation Museum-a division of Old Pueblo Trolley, Inc. In our time here in Tucson, we have had little if anything to do with the local NRHS Chapter.

The fact is that the conversation that you present must be held by the interested parties in the NRHS. The organization must evolve or it WILL die.

I think the main issue the NRHS needs to face now is this: if you are going to make dramatic changes, do it now while you can, not when you are facing liquidation or worse. For the members of the Bluewater Michigan Chapter, we made the dramatic decision to abandon our longstanding mechanical operation and close down our shop. We then donated most of our physical holdings. While this was a tough decision, it was better to make it now, instead of when a scrapper was standing next to the cars with a court judgment in hand in a few years.

Where this applies to the national organization is: I question how viable it is to hold onto the collections the National has of books, films, etc. given the cost to do so, and how few people use them. The Bluewater Chapter also faced the same quandary about 10 years ago, and decided to close up the office and give up on keeping a library. I also question how viable it is to pay people to maintain membership records, especially given the shaky service the National has received in this regard. If the National can't find volunteers to handle membership, and has to put itself into a hole to pay for this service, then maybe the National can't exist in its present form any more.

All tough decisions to be made, but let's make them now while we still can.

Chris.

I disagree.

The "at large" membership concept is not new and has been around for a long time and can work.

Consider, for example, our case:

In 1980, we moved to the Detroit area from another city that had a large NRHS chapter that we were active in. When we moved, we had a choice of dropping out of NRHS, maintaining our membership in that chapter (even though it was unlikely we'd ever get back for a meeting.

It took us about a year to find a house get totally settled in and, in fact, we delivered the papers for the closing on our house to our lawyer enroute to the Toronto convention that year, and closed after we got back. We also got to the Louisville convention in 1981 and the Colorado one the next year and at those two conventions met some NRHS members from Michigan

By 1982, we were ready to get active in NRHS again, were up to speed with what was going on with the Society and were at the meeting at the Hobby Attic that Paul called to form Bluewater which one of the people we met at a convention told us about and the rest as they say "is history."

Bob H

First, don't believe it when someone tells you you can find out anything you want to know from the internet. I've been racking my brain to try and remember the name of Greg Malloy's predecessor as NRHS President, and just can't, and the interwebs have been no help today.

I was looking for that piece of information because in 1994, Mr. Malloy was the reform candidate for President, and I could not have been happier. At the '93 Chicago convention I sat in front of the then current President on the IRM trip on METRA. I took the opportunity to try and discuss a few thoughts I had on possible things the organization could do in preservation with him. He was having none of it, and could not have been more dismissive of me. It was at that point that I became a malcontent, hoping for someone to come along and stage a coup. Well, it happened the following year with Malloy. I believe things got better for several years. Obviously, at some point the leadership and ideas became stale.

Perhaps the lesson is that there needs to be new blood injected into the leadership of any organization more often than every 20 years. I live next to a city which has had the same mayor now for over 25 years, and while even many who oppose him politically will give him credit for keeping the city's head above water for that time, the political machine he has developed prevents a credible successor from emerging - even from within his own party (to the point that he made sure his primary opponent in the last election lost his regular job recently). I don't believe in set term limits - voters have that power every so often, whether or not they chose to use it - but officeholders should have the common sense to know that fresh blood and ideas need to be nurtured and developed, or the entire organization will wither and die.

In reading all of the posts about the NRHS, two things stand out. First, railfans don't support railfan activities. This does not apply to just the NRHS. It is a way to common maladay that we railfans face. As was stated in an earlier post by Bartman-TN, if it doesn't fit my narrow interest, I'm not interested. I've suffered from this in two NRHS Chapters that I used to belong to. In both cases, I was essentially ostracized from the chapters because my interests were different from the majority of the chapter's members. The same was true of the trips I organized for one of the chapters. If we hadn't turned to the general public, those trips would have never been run. BTW, the Chapter made a substantial windfall from the trip that gave it almost a decade of operating funds that would have never been covered by just the dues alone. Second, as mentioned in another post is all the in-fighting, lies and rumors that goes on not just at National, but at the chapter level as well. When situations arise like the one where the editor of a chapter's newsletter was spreading malicious lies, was called on it, and basically told the people in charge that he/she didn't care, he/she was going to do whatever he/she pleased, I think that National should step in and take some sort of action. I'm not sure how to go about doing that, but Chapters need to know that if they aren't willing to at least pay lip service to the NRHS goals, there will be consequences. Now, I know, that not everyone is going to agree on everything and open, honest debate certainly has a place when new or different ideas are presented. But, once a policy has been decided upon, then it's time for everyone to get on board and support it. Yes, sometimes there needs to be tweaking to the process and calling attention to problems and correcting them is certainly legitimate. But, to continue to let chapters get away with malicious rumors and outright lies cannot go unpunished. One final thing I would like to suggest is that maybe it's time to cut back the number of chapters. I remember reading through the annual recap and was astounded at how many chapters listed no meeting dat, no contact and/or had no activities. I can think of two chapters that have done absolutely nothing (meetings or otherwise) for at least the last 15 years. If a chapter can't justify its existence, then maybe it doesn't need to be part of the NRHS. Maybe it's time to get rid of the dead weight to help the NRHS reorganize and rejuvenate itself.

My understanding is that one of the problems is that the NRHS has allowed local chapters to veto the organization of another chapter within a given radius of an existing chapter (somewhere I heard it was 75 miles). I know that in the past a local chapter to me has used that veto numerous times. Now that chapter is a "last man's club", barely above the threshold of being a chapter.

Just as one example:

That meeting was up in my native area. I was able to take a "day trip" up there to chase that trip. I tried to talk a couple other members into going up for a ride, but what this amounted to was $110 to ride 17.8 miles of track, of which only three miles or so were "new" or "unattainable" to the hard-core rare-mileage collector--your average NRHS member is, sadly, old enough to have ridden the former excursion operations over that trackage, and if in the Northeast has probably done so. Even adjusted for inflation, that's still more than I paid to ride behind Chessie 614 from Pittsburgh to Meyersdale and return in July 1981. Yeah, I know, more photo runbys, but still.......

(I did offer my services as crew to the hosting chapter, my "home town" chapter, but they had enough crew, so I just shoved money at them for dinner and bought a few surplus items from them.)

And by the way, the last couple shop tours my Chapter has been on? Free to registrants/members, except for the Strasburg shop tours, where we got a group discount. Hmmm, I think we need to go back to 1-2 of them again......

Paul: Nelson Bowers? <:-)