I received a letter quite some time ago asking about the disposition of the USATC 2-8-0s, specifically, those that were used at the 1966 NRHS Convention which featured a triple header at Fort Eustis with 606, 611, and 612. After reading the posts below on the status of the S-160s I think this would make a good subject for my preservation column in Railfan & Railroad. My question: where can I find a good history of the S-160s? I need to know why they were built, export info, why some stayed in the United States, etc.

Thanks,

Jeff Terry

jterry618@msn.com

Okay this is ironic, right now I am taking a break from writing my honors thesis on the 728th Railway Operating Battalion. There is a British Book by R. Tourret titled "Allied Military Locomotives of the Second World War". I had to order mine from Great Britain, but if you use the used book searched like bibliofind, you should be able to find a copy. He has a detailed shipping history of the locomotives, like when they arrived in Europe, etc for each locomotive. He also covers disposition of the locomotives after the war. Only a very few came back to the United States, as most were given to the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration for disposion to European countries. Quite a few ended up in Poland and Romania.
The ones that stayed here were used for training, or other operations. USA/TC 1600, 1702, and 2628-2631 stayed at Ft. Eustis duing the war. 1600 later went to Alaska, 1702 to the Warren and Saline River. 2628-2631 stayed at Ft. Eustis. 2628 was the one fitted with Rotary Cam Poppet Valve gear, and was renumbered 611 in 1952. 2631 became 612, and 5846 arrived at Ft. Eustis and was numbered 606. 5187-5199 were stored at the Marietta TC depot in December 1945. Later 5188-5199 went to China under UNRRA arrangemtns but 5187 went to Ft. Eustis and became 607.
I beleive there is a L&RP article about the S-160. Anybody know what issue?

wilkidm@wku.edu

Believe the L&RP issue was No. 4, Sept/Oct 1986. A Ron Ziel article. I thought it was well done.

> Okay this is ironic, right now I am taking
> a break from writing my honors thesis on the
> 728th Railway Operating Battalion. There is
> a British Book by R. Tourret titled
> "Allied Military Locomotives of the
> Second World War". I had to order mine
> from Great Britain, but if you use the used
> book searched like bibliofind, you should be
> able to find a copy. He has a detailed
> shipping history of the locomotives, like
> when they arrived in Europe, etc for each
> locomotive. He also covers disposition of
> the locomotives after the war. Only a very
> few came back to the United States, as most
> were given to the United Nations Relief and
> Rehabilitation Administration for disposion
> to European countries. Quite a few ended up
> in Poland and Romania.
> The ones that stayed here were used for
> training, or other operations. USA/TC 1600,
> 1702, and 2628-2631 stayed at Ft. Eustis
> duing the war. 1600 later went to Alaska,
> 1702 to the Warren and Saline River.
> 2628-2631 stayed at Ft. Eustis. 2628 was the
> one fitted with Rotary Cam Poppet Valve
> gear, and was renumbered 611 in 1952. 2631
> became 612, and 5846 arrived at Ft. Eustis
> and was numbered 606. 5187-5199 were stored
> at the Marietta TC depot in December 1945.
> Later 5188-5199 went to China under UNRRA
> arrangemtns but 5187 went to Ft. Eustis and
> became 607.
> I beleive there is a L&RP article about
> the S-160. Anybody know what issue?


bobyar2001@yahoo.com

Anybody out there have a copy of this issue? I would like to get one for the 'ole thesis.

wilkidm@wku.edu

I guess this is stating the obvious, but of course 1702 (Baldwin 1942, no. 64641) went to the Warren & Saline River, the Reader, and then the Fremont & Elkhorn Valley before going to Great Smoky Mountains in 1991, where it runs today. 610 went to a preservation group in Alabama (?) and then went to TVRM. 611 is at TVRM also. Just my contributions.

higginson_john@hotmail.com

> Anybody out there have a copy of this issue?
> I would like to get one for the 'ole thesis.

Try www.railpub.com

Their November 2001 pricelist indicates that they have the issue for $5.00

Disclaimer: I have no vested interest in the business conducted by the above mentioned internet site -- other than being a satified customer in completing my collection of L & RP.

'doc' Lewis

Heber Valley Railroad
utweyesguy@aol.com

USA/TC while similar to other S-160s isn't one. I believe we have had this conversation before, but it has a differnt operating pressure, cylinder diameter and stroke, and the boiler sits 1" lower. It may look like a duck, quack like a duck, but 610 isn't a duck (or an S-160 in this case)

wilkidm@wku.edu

USA/TC 610 while similar to other S-160s isn't one. I believe we have had this conversation before, but it has a differnt operating pressure, cylinder diameter and stroke, and the boiler sits 1" lower. It may look like a duck, quack like a duck, but 610 isn't a duck (or an S-160 in this case)

wilkidm@wku.edu

Thanks everyone for you help!

I was able to find the No. 4 issue of L&RP in my collection. Bob was right - Ron Ziel wrote an excellent article about the S-160s that is proving to be very helpful.

Jeff

jterry618@msn.com

> 610 went to a
> preservation group in Alabama (?) and then
> went to TVRM. 611 is at TVRM also. Just my
> contributions.

It was given to the Wiregrass Chapter of the NRHS, and when it appeared that it would be scrapped in the 1970s Jim Bistline stepped in and had it stored at Southern Railway's steam shop in Irondale, AL, until it accompanied SOU 630 to TVRM.

JAC

I had some slides scanned last week, and for fun threw in a few from a steam festival in Budapest in 1996. One loco in the parade was Magyar Allumvasutak (MAV) 2-8-0 411.118, an S160 that survived well into the 1970s in regular service.

David, one source for additional tidbits on S160s would be the Eagleson/Ziel books like "Twilight of World Steam," which had some interesting details in the captions.

JAC

> I had some slides scanned last week, and for
> fun threw in a few from a steam festival in
> Budapest in 1996. One loco in the parade was
> Magyar Allumvasutak (MAV) 2-8-0 411.118, an
> S160 that survived well into the 1970s in
> regular service.

411.118 was originally USA/TC 3450, built by Baldwin in 1944 as their c/n 70407. I don't know when it arrived in Europe, but I think if I look at the book, I can find out. By the way, the Hungarians really improved the looks of the S-160.

wilkidm@wku.edu

Dave,

Thanks for the details on 411.118. I have some other S-160s in my database without construction or USA/TC details, perhaps you could help? They are:

1. MAV 411.005, in use as a stationary boiler in Komarom, Hungary.
2. MAV 411.090, stored dismantled at East Lancashire Railway, UK
3. MAV 411.144, operational at the Birmingham Railway Museum, Tysely, W. Midlands, UK
4. MAV 411.358, in back of Railway Station, Hegyeshalom, Hungary
5. FS 736.113, at Napoli Smistamento, Naples, Italy
6. CR KD6 487, at open pit mine, Pingyuan (near Chifeng), Liaoning Province, China
7. SZD D51-2984, ex USA/TC 2984???, stored at depot, north of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Sakhalin Island, Russia.

Thanks in advance. One interesting note: while several S-160s had their gauge increased to 5' 0" for use in the former Soviet Union and India, the last engine on the list (D51-2984) had it's gauge reduced to 3' 6"! This was done so that it could be used on the railway left behind on Sakhalin island by the Japanese, along with several Mitsubishi-built D-51 class 2-8-2s. (Come to think of it, I believe someone asked about rebuilding an S-160 to narrow guage, I guess here is your answer!)

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> 411.118 was originally USA/TC 3450, built by
> Baldwin in 1944 as their c/n 70407. I don't
> know when it arrived in Europe, but I think
> if I look at the book, I can find out. By
> the way, the Hungarians really improved the
> looks of the S-160.


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Here we go!

> 1. MAV 411.005, in use as a stationary
> boiler in Komarom, Hungary.
USA/TC 1786 Baldwin c/n 67679 1942
> 2. MAV 411.090, stored dismantled at East
> Lancashire Railway, UK
USA/TC 1614 Alco c/n70445 1942
> 3. MAV 411.144, operational at the
> Birmingham Railway Museum, Tysely, W.
> Midlands, UK
USA/TC 6046 Baldwin c/n 72080 1945
> 4. MAV 411.358, in back of Railway Station,
> Hegyeshalom, Hungary
USA/TC 6056 Baldwin c/n 72090 1945
> 5. FS 736.113, at Napoli Smistamento,
> Naples, Italy
USA/TC 3323 Alco c/n 71578 1944
> 6. CR KD6 487, at open pit mine, Pingyuan
> (near Chifeng), Liaoning Province, China
> 7. SZD D51-2984, ex USA/TC 2984???, stored
> at depot, north of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk,
> Sakhalin Island, Russia.

Can't help you on the last two. The S-160s sent to the USSR orignially were in a different number series. They were in the SZD WA 1-200 range, as 200 were built to 5 foot gauge. The same goes for the China locomotive.

As an interesting sidenote, only two of the S-160s were returned to the U.S. from Europe after the war. They were 3409 and 3410. They went to the Alska Railroad.

wilkidm@wku.edu

> Here we go!
> USA/TC 1786 Baldwin c/n 67679 1942
> USA/TC 1614 Alco c/n70445 1942
> USA/TC 6046 Baldwin c/n 72080 1945
> USA/TC 6056 Baldwin c/n 72090 1945
> USA/TC 3323 Alco c/n 71578 1944

Thanks!

> Can't help you on the last two. The S-160s
> sent to the USSR orignially were in a
> different number series. They were in the
> SZD WA 1-200 range, as 200 were built to 5
> foot gauge. The same goes for the China
> locomotive.

I was told by someone who had access to a list of locomotives assigned numbers by the USA/TC that the "Russian Decopods" built and shipped over to Russia for Lend-Lease had USA/TC numbers assigned; I assumed the S-160s did too.

> As an interesting sidenote, only two of the
> S-160s were returned to the U.S. from Europe
> after the war. They were 3409 and 3410. They
> went to the Alska Railroad.

That's not too surprising. Built to British loading guage and of course built with screw couplers, they were too small to use on most US railways, and would have had to be converted back to Janney couplers to be useful. They were far more needed in war ravenged Europe.

Interestingly, both North AND South Korea recieved S-160s, so they fought on both sides of the war! South Korea got them from the UN; North Korea I assum got them from China (those KD6'es again.) They may still be some in North Korea today.

When you count the derivatives built for Mexico, they and the "MacArthur" 2-8-2s were well-traveled locomotives! I know the "MacArthur" locomotives were shipped to Australia; I wonder if any S-160s were as well.

-James Hefner
x710

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net