Former White Pass & Yukon cars....

Question though....how are they going to run year around when they can't even operate a full season without major problems?

The Georgetown Loop situation has all the flame potential of Steam Town. As the site moderator, the topic scares me a bit.

Can we please be careful on this one... (note, this is not a warning or a topic lock, just a concern when playing with fire and other dangerous things...)

The topic has been pretty well beat to death on several Colorado Narrow gauge discussion sites, particularly the Narrow Gauge Discussion List....

Thanks
Randy Hees
Moderator RYPN

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was flaming or attempting to start one...I was asking a legitimate question.

Considering that the WP&Y is seeing a steady increase in their ridership year after year, for them to sell 3 of their desperatly needed cars to another operation tells me that the GLR has made once again a serious investment into equipment...and thankfully an investment that requires little work after arrival.

Anyone know what engines they are awaiting?

Junior, you didn't cross any lines... But this topic has been a problem elsewhere, and as moderator I sometimes need to remind people there are lines.

The White Pass cars were involved in yard accident several years ago, and I suspect were sold as part of the insurance settlement... They have already been replaced (along with other new cars)

These are not "historic" cars, instead are cars built in the late 1980's or early 1990's as cruise ship business exploded. Since then they have gone on to a new design for their new passenger cars. With brand new cars available it was probably legally simpler to declare these scrap.

As for the new engines, at least one is the an outside frame consolidation, from Breckenridge Colorado, a former Central American engine, once part of the Sundown Southern project. It is being rebuilt in Stasburg Colorado.

There is also a large Porter diesel being rebuilt for the line by the Sumter Valley group.

Randy,
Are these the cars that were for sale without their trucks?

"There is also a large Porter diesel being rebuilt for the line by the Sumter Valley group."

Just to keep the record straight, the name is:

Sumpter Valley Railroad Restoration, Inc. A non-profit operating steam railroad museum. The "p" in Sumpter is of historic significance. Also known as SVRy, Sumpter Valley Railway.

The Porter is # 1203 and will hopefully be completed by Sept/End.

dan

Loop discussions do tend to get out of hand pretty quickly, as often happens when there're both politics and controversy involved. And the issues up there are certainly complex.

As for year 'round operations, after reading the short 9news blurb, I wouldn't make too much of this. About all that's being said is that it becomes more feasible with some year 'round capable cars on site. It's nothing more than a "wish for" at this point - I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting that there are hard plans in place.

Scott

The subject has been broached but has not met with universal acclaim in the ranks, nor among the management, nor has it been prioritized. Certainly some form of extending the season - perhaps only to include chartered trains - is now more feasable than previously. Experience has shown that the market for retail level ridership does not economically extend past the leaf season into the blizzard season. Spring presents another set of problems, what with heavy late snows being common, which lead to heavy runoff and a fine crop of rocks on the track and soft roadbed on an annual basis. Virtually all the track work is done in May once the situation has stabilized, apart from smaller maintenence jobs and any emergency repairs.

Our operating priority now is getting poor little 12 through the last of this years season, through October 8th. No commitments have been made for any additional trips, so please do not expect any until further notice.

Personally, given the rate at which the over century-old converted wooden freight cars are removing themselves by attrition, any steel framed cars with roller bearings and ABDW brakes are good news to me. These are in fact 3 of the cars that were damaged in the collision, which did come with trucks. There is an opportunity to obtain two more of these carbodies less trucks, for possible conversion to open air cars - nothing has been confirmed concerning those at this point.

Sumpter Valley has built a beautiful excursion gondola from a WPY flatcar that makes me want some of them.........done to their usual high standard.

dave

Thank you Dave.... Because unlike NGDF we actually have people here that a) actually understand the problem b) know the answer, and c) have a right to speak. God bless RYPN...

No problem Randy - I went over and read that thread on NGDF and I find some of the commentary entirely irrelevant and most of the rest clearly misunderstood, but with the ocasional good relevant point made here and there. I suppose when it is a passion rather than a business, and the loudest sources of (mis)information are based on emotional and political agendas, forces of chaos will prevail. That's why I limit my postings to RyPN - real people in the business predominate here, and why listen to opinions not worthy of consideration?

NOBODY wants to have a successful operation at the Loop more than Railstar. Given the structure we are forced to work under, anybody less tenacious would have packed it in a year ago. Having had some very pleasant conversations with Lindsey Ashby, i do not believe he would take the operation back under any circumstances that the state could llegally offer, even if it were nickel plated. There may be entities that have greater resources than Railstar who could have bid, but chose not to - but then again, Railstar was not permitted to bring all its potential resources to the railroad by CHS, predominant in my mind at present the 70 ton 4 axle center cab diesels Railstar had options on in 2005-6.

That this season's operations have been rough comes as no surprise to me - I am surprised we haven't had a lot more down time. Railstar had specifications ready to start work on 12 end of February, but CHS didn't award the bid until late April, in a form that wasn't what I had written. The work was performed by an outside contractor over which Railstar had no oversight, nor quality control, and in fact isn't even completed yet. My rock and hard place was make do with what we were given, or refuse to run anything and shut down. I think we have made do pretty well, under the circumstances.

On the operations end, we have a far too lean staff, but keep the trains running mostly anyhow, and have greatly improved our training / qualifications / record keeping. The team beautifully built by Steven Torrico is about 80% intact, and maybe about 75% a team. We need some attrition, and more team players to come aboard. Expressions of interest are welcome.

Ron Trottier is a patient man - much more so than I am. I am not speaking for him here, just myself, and will most likely get called on the carpet for it, but I do not see the present situation tenable beyond October 8th in any case, and having never been known for diplomacy, volunteer freely as a blunt instrument.

It has been educational, and incredibly frustrating.

dave

That sure looks like one of the cars that were stored near Seattle and offered for sale on Ebay. As you mention, they were offered without the trucks.

However, when I saw the cars, the trucks were sitting on the ground next to them. I can't tell from my photos, but there's either 9 or 10 trucks there, in any case, there were plenty for 3 cars.

There were a total of 5 cars on the site, but at least one had apparently been damaged in a collision of some sort. I don't know how severe the damage is.

Anyone know if they have any plans to buy the other two cars? Seems like they would want to get them all, as they look to be well suited for the operation.